Episode 59: Giving Yourself Grace
Guest: Dr. Monica Blied
Lauren: Thank you so much for joining me today. Welcome.
Monica: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Lauren: And I'd love to hear a little bit about your health journey summary.
Monica: So in a nutshell, to make a long story long, I was diagnosed with Lupus in 2012. It was actually my second year of my PhD program and when I got diagnosed I thought I had diabetes because my grandfather had diabetes and I had really severe fatigue. And then when I would eat I would feel better and have some energy and then like it would be like some kind of cusp that I would go over where I would just like fall asleep for like four hours. And I was like, this is weird.
Lauren: That sounds like that was a new experience for you.
Monica: Yeah, but fortunately I had some really smart doctors that I was working with and they recognized what I didn't know even existed, did some tests and found out that that's what it was. And I was in deep denial at first. So I actually fired my doctor and, and went and found a new doctor that knew nothing about me.
Lauren: Wow.
Monica: Several months later and with this new physician, got some blood work done, just a regular physical and she looks at my labs and she says, do you have lupus?
Lauren: Hmm.
Monica: Yeah, it's like a while to come to terms with the reality of it. And over time, since then it's been eight years, I think. I've pretty much come to grips. I still have my pity parties where I, you know, blow up my balloons and make my own little cake. German chocolate, of course, you know.
Lauren: I love that. I love that you have a mental whole party set up in your brain.
Monica: Yes, yes. But now those parties are less frequent and there's more hope.
Lauren: So, and how long ago was that?
Monica: That was eight years ago.
Lauren: So eight years ago. And you've been through so much. When we get a new diagnosis, there's this process of kind of integrating it into our lives and tourists. And I'm curious what that was like for you now.
Monica: It was challenging because one of the things with systemic lupus is sunlight can cause a flare up and that the UV radiation itself, and I was pretty active. Like I would love to go hiking and go to amusement parks and everything out in the sun, just living my best life.
Lauren: Yes!
Monica: Plus I'm African American, so I just never wore sunblock or anything. And so you're telling me now I need to wear some block every day and I have to be careful of the sun, and I need to take medication every day for the rest of my life.
Lauren: Big Changes!
Monica: All of that was, yeah, all these huge changes. So I started to make some adjustments. I go, okay, well, and this was not immediate. It took some time for me to come to this, but I can't go hiking in the middle of the day. I can't go to the beach in the middle of the day. What can I do? I can go before 10:00 AM, I can go after 4:00 PM, you know, I can wear a big sun hat and look really cute and I did some, you know, special Amazon shopping for like UV blocking clothing and those kinds of things. The interesting thing about when I was diagnosed, I think it brought a lot of compassion to me at the time I was working clinically with folks living with HIV and AIDS and they had a lot of the same symptoms that I had, body pain and chronic fatigue and being only in their twenties and having to take medication for the rest of their life, you know, quote unquote like an old person and all these things and I've got it. And at the time I did not disclose to my patients in the hospital that I was working with about my diagnosis. However, I could sense that they knew that I got it. Like I was there with them and completely attuned while we did our work together.
Lauren: That's pretty amazing because clearly you were doing the deep work with them anyway. As a clinician, you were there with them. And I think any of us who are therapists or in any field like that, we join people. We meet them where, where they are. When we do that, often we're drawing on something in our lives that might be somewhat related. But when you get to a place where you realize, Holy cannoli, we're in maybe not the exact same boat but we are in a boat together that we didn't, I didn't realize, you know, as a clinic or you, you didn't realize as a clinician. And so what, how did that change your work?
Monica: I had to confront for myself what my definition of health was because I had these messages that healthy looks like this. Healthy looks like going to the beach. Healthy looks like living your best life. The, the term, the phrase that I used before, healthy looks like this set of lab results. You know, for example, healthy looks like, you know, God is blessing you with the ability to, and then fill in the blanks and then all of a sudden that was just jarred for me. Everything just collided.
Lauren: Your whole definition of health changed.
Monica: Exactly.
Lauren: I'm sure that impacted your clients in a big way too.
Monica: I can't even put into words like what that looked like therapeutically.
Lauren: Yeah. Well some of my favorite stuff is hard to put into words.
Monica: Yeah. I wish I could just draw a picture for you of us connecting.
Lauren: What would the picture look like if you could?
Monica: Yeah. So it would be like me and at this time I was like a little bit of a fashionista and so I would wear like my long a line pleated skirts, like cute little boots, flats of course. Cause I'm already five 11, so I didn't need to be like five and tills or whatever. And then like a cute little sweater with the color and all that. And I'd be sitting with my legs crossed, sitting across from my client or patients and they would just be pouring out their heart about trying to make sense of their suffering. And what does this mean now? Like, Oh man, um, does God not love me? Is God punishing me for, in the fill in the blank? You know? Well, my, my mom said, my grandma said, you know, this. And being able to talk with them through those really hard struggles as they were wrestling with their own self concepts, with their own concepts of God, concepts of, you know, how does this fit in with my family, with my hope for the future. That's what that looks like. Just sitting, listening, observing, but then also being 100% there.
Lauren: Yeah. And I also noticed you didn't say judging,
Monica: Oh yeah, no.
Lauren: That's not in the picture. The picture is you and your cute pleated skirt being with your client as they explore perhaps one of the hardest questions that we sit with. For a lot of us, I will include myself in that, what does it mean about whatever you call the universe, the divine God spirit. What does it mean that spirit or God is allowing this to happen to me and to be able to sit with you in the room and open up about that is some of the most intimate process. And it’s cool that you could get it from the inside.
Monica: Right. And then me coming from a position of not giving any answers because frankly, I didn't know the answer myself. You're like, you're like, I'm hoping that we'll figure it out. Let's do this. But then just allowing that space to talk about that and then also intersectionality. Like how does this fit? Also with the fact that I'm, you know, a black gay man that I, I'm a Latina in a family where, you know, I've already broken all these, you know, norms or whatever and you know, uh, did sex work or whatever that person's history might be. And now I have this shame that I'm bringing to my family, you know, with this diagnosis. And so just bearing witness to that, I think it's such a gift and a privilege and not something that I take lightly.
Lauren: As you're talking about this, I'm getting little chills because sometimes I forget to think about how important it is to be able to talk about this stuff with your therapist. And what I love about what you just said too is it's not just, Oh, I have chronic illness as an identity, but this is my racial or ethnic identity, this is my gender identity, this is my career, this is, you know, all these different layers. Being able to sort of, I feel like when we sit in therapy, we're trying to make sense of it all.
Monica: Yes.
Lauren: And what I love about, I think this is what gave me the chills is you're sitting with them, you're being with them. But also there's this deep compassion. Like he said, there's something that happens between two humans, whether it's in a therapy office or anywhere. When we sit together and we, we sit with the big questions and, and we're even willing to not have the answers right away. Sometimes I forget to step back, even though like today I just saw a bunch of clients and you know, I get really into the process and I'm with each person individually, but sometimes they forget to step back and look at, look at what we're doing together.
Monica: Yeah. And at that time, being able to combine that process with my own self, um, reflection, my own, like figuring stuff out. Um, the, so at the time, my mentor, uh, she's a psychologist in Los Angeles, dr Tamar Bryant Davis. She had asked me to write a book chapter on black women and the church, related specifically to health disparities. What does it look like when the church isn't responding to, uh, black women having, you know, some of the highest rates of breast cancer and diabetes and other chronic health concerns? And so in this process of me writing this chapter, I had to confront my own beliefs and my own, what do you call it? A toxic, some of the things that I was raised with that just weren't serving me anymore.
Lauren: Oh, that's a great way to put it. I like that.
Monica: My final conclusion that I actually wrote in that chapter was that my health is not a measure of my faith.
Lauren: Hmm.
Monica: I had to completely rebuke. I'm going to use that word, this idea that if only I prayed enough, if only I were more faithful. If only dot dot dot. I wouldn't have lupus or I would be healed of lupus. What I discovered for myself and what I noticed that my clients were discovering for themselves was that with this illness, it was almost like a, a blessing. Like it was this beautiful thing that was created because now they pay attention and notice the laughter of children and how awesome that is. Those little giggles or as they're driving bill actually be mindful and see the leaves on the trees blowing on the sides of the freeway. Or they'll take a moment and take a deep breath and appreciate the sunrise in the sense that it's like these things that we really take for granted when you're not sick, when you don't have the words chronic and be abilitative. You know, this dr Google told me, you know. When you don't have that, you know, it's, it's this, uh, sense of appreciation for life and the breath that is in my body that I just didn't, didn't really appreciate before.
Lauren: Well, the podcast interview is over because you already gave all the answers because that was so amazing. I'm kidding. We're not, podcast isn’t over.
Lauren: Sometimes they just have these moments and I'm just like, that was so beautiful that I almost feel like saying words after what you just said doesn't do justice to what you just said. It just feels like, let it wash over me. Because it's almost like if you imagine and different people imagine God differently or, or believe in what they believe, but if you think about it, almost like if you think of God as like a loving parent, yeah. It's almost like gently putting their hand on a child's shoulders and saying, look over there, you know? Yeah. Don't forget to take it in.
Monica: Thank you. And so it's something that when I get busy with the hustle and bustle of life, even now, you know, on the days that I'm feeling good, feeling better, feeling invincible before you know, I get knocked down again, I'm reminded to pace myself and allow my rest to be a part of my daily practice. When I get in those moments, I have to actually be intentional about it. Be intentional about what is most important to me. Right?
Lauren: Yeah. I almost feel like it's like turning on a switch. Oh right. What's actually important. You know, we get so distracted by, or at least I'll speak for myself, but I think that alone I get so distracted by all of the supposedly stresses of life. Not to say that life doesn't have its own, you know, certainly we experienced stress, but for me sometimes I wonder if stress is a, an illusion or a distraction from what's truly important. Like stress is almost more of a reaction to what's not important or something. But that's not the same as like when we're actually concerned for a loved one or something brave is happening. I'm not trying to make light of that, but I get so caught up in the little, Oh that person in traffic did that thing or you know, and in turn my form in at this time and at the end of the world. And like that's the stuff that can, if we're not careful, it can build up and pile up in our lives and then we cannot see over the pile. Yeah. It consumes us. And then for me, I forget what's important. And so what you're talking about is, is taking a step back and saying, Oh, right, right, right. I need to intentionally ask myself what is important. So these days, what's your answer? What's important to you these days?
Monica: Oh gosh, family. That's like my number one. And even right now with building my practice, I have it like I'm done at five o'clock. Last appointment is at 4:00 PM because I have a baby to go home, two and a half children. And I have Netflix because that's important to me. So you know, I, I want to be able to do good work but make sure that my cup is refilled. And the way that my cup is refilled is by spending time with my husband, by calling my mom every day inventing back by, you know, just those things that fill me back up. I wanted to go back though to something that you said about stress being an illusion. And it reminded me actually of one of my mentors, Jeff Bjork. It's so funny, kind of as a tangent. He is a psychologist but also like a claimed musician. Like he has like channels and Pandora and all that.
Lauren: Well if you're on Pandora, that's a, you know, it's really happening.
Monica: Anyway, he says he talks about illusory control, that our belief that we can actually control things in life, you know, control what happens to us and what we do next and all those things. That's actually the loosen and that's what causes us stress and anxiety of, okay, well you know, what if this and what if that and I regret this and kind of just this going back and forth, this vacillating between all these thoughts about our past and all these worries and concerns about our future instead of just realizing that like the amount of stuff that's actually within our little pocket of control is actually pretty small. And then we need to acknowledge that and then kind of relinquish the other stuff too. Like, yes, you can have influence on other people's behavior for example, you can have influence on what might happen next, but ultimately it's out of our hands. And once we do embrace that, once I, that's a daily practice, well, once I do embrace that there is so much more freedom.
Lauren: Yes, it is really lovely too because part of stepping into what we do have control over is letting go of what we don't and Oh my goodness, there's so much we don't have control over, which is actually the name of the podcast. Right. Not What I Ordered...This is not what I ordered is actually a much better problem if you're ordering dinner than if you're talking about a health challenge. Right? But we don't have control over any of those things if they bring out the wrong order at the restaurant or if you have a health challenge and it's not me trying to make light of the health challenge, but it is a way of looking at all right, this thing happened. One of the first things you and I know cause we're therapists is we're going to have an emotional experience. It's going to be hard. It's going to be relieving, it's going to be terrible. It's going to be whatever it is. And then we have this, we have this option of what's next. Okay, well this thing outside my control happened. Now what's next means what's next inside my control? What do I have control over now that I have?
Monica: Yes, yes, yes. And not skipping from point A to point B too fast, like realizing like in point A, there's some grief work that has to happen. Like I had to grieve, like to mourn the loss of my ideal of a healthy me and what that looked like to have shifts in what I call it normal and to have different limitations, you know, and or limitations period. And once that grief work is done, then we can move forward to like, okay, how do I want to write the next chapter of my story? Because there are things, like you said, there are things that I can do, so let's figure out what those things are.
Lauren: I love the question of how do I want to write the next chapter, because it puts the kind of the author's pen in my hand and it invites me into the role of the author. Yes. Which is, Ooh, I like that so much better than the cultural role of the patient. Cause the role of the quote unquote patient, which is always a funny word for me, I don't like it because it feels objectifying. I'm a patient, you know? I also get that it's an identity for a lot of people, like people who are patient advocates and all of that. But for me, the cultural story around what the patient is, is this submissive? No power. Oh poor. You kind of like nobody wants to eat.
Monica: Right, right, right, right. Doctor, give me your orders, give me my prescription and then I'll follow it. Instead of you, or the person being like active and collaborative. And their care. Or like even taking the pen and saying like, Hey, this is what matters to me. And that's what whole health is about. By the way, this is what matters to me and this is what I'm going to work on next.
Lauren: So I'm curious, when you say whole health, is that referring to something in particular? It's like a program or strategy or are you just talking about the concept of whole health?
Monica: Oh, it is a system that the VA, the veterans hospital has adopted over the past decade. And in my role as program manager for health promotion and disease prevention at the Loma Linda VA, I've brought this system to our facility where it's a cultural transformation. We're changing the conversation between doctors and patients from what we just described. You know, this is what's wrong with you. I'll look at your lab tasks and then you know, here's your prescription. This is what you need to do...to...So tell me, uh, what matters most to you?
Lauren: Aah my body just like relaxed when you said that. Can you imagine, I'm saying this to everybody listening cause I'm a mess right now. Can you imagine going into your doctor's office and the first thing they say to you is, so tell me what matters to you. Because they're going to get a real answer. That doctor's going to get a real answer from you, I can tell you that much.
Monica: Right, right. You know, so maybe I don't want to lose weight for a vanities sake, but maybe I want to because my knees, I've had so much pain and I need to walk my daughter down the aisle next day, you know? So, what drives you? What is going to, motivate you to be a partner in your health journey?
Lauren: So that's what that is.
Monica: That's what that is. Yeah. And that's actually how I developed my private practice with the whole health system model of, Hey, if we're going to encourage folks to live more fully with their chronic illness, we need to be able to give them resources to do it. Traditional psychotherapy, you know, that's fantastic for so many people. And for some people they're kind of already at their 70, 80% optimal functioning and they need help getting over that last little, you know, 20% hump. Life coaching might be good for health coaching, might be good for you. Let's develop some smart goals and do this. Maybe you have physical mobility issues, maybe you have some pain, let's do some yoga. But I can't balance, you know, yoga is hard. Yes it is. That's why I'm certified in chair yoga. Everybody can have a seat.
Lauren: By the way, I'm glad that we say, because I want to hear all about chair yoga and like tell me about it and what got you interested in it. And what's wonderful about it.
Monica: So chair yoga is adaptive yoga. It's chair/senior yoga. So you know, it's, it's typically what you would think of in a billboard of you know, folks all gray hair and they're sitting down and they're, you know, moving their arms and legs and having a good time. But the adaptive piece is, it is really for any body. If you have balance issues or you know, you just had a knee replacement or a hip replaced them or whatever, that won't limit you or stop you from actually being able to get some physical activity in. And so you're sitting in a chair and you're doing range of motion exercises, you're doing some core strengthening and all these great things and you're actually sweating. I've had some folks complain to me, like what are you doing to me? And I was teaching it when I was nine months pregnant. Combined with that is breathwork. Realizing that doing that deep belly breathing, that diaphragmatic breathing is what activates our body's relaxation system. Or the Parris sympathetic nervous system. And that is so important to helping with our immune system to helping relieve stress, to helping you know, our blood and ourselves and our organs all working together for our betterness. That's a word I'm into it.
Lauren: And I'm just thinking about the times that I've been experiencing dizziness and balance issues with my MS and how helpful chair yoga would be. So it's a wonderful idea and concept for me to check out and certainly anybody who's never heard of it or who has and now wants to check it out, what would you recommend if people, are there any YouTube channels you watch or anything in particular?
Monica: Yeah, so you can YouTube chair yoga. There's also chair salsa, which is super fun. Yeah.
Lauren: That's amazing. Just Google chair and then exercise and the exercise videos go from like, four minutes to like 30 minutes if you want a full workout. And it is ton of fun. A ton of fun.
Monica: Thank you for telling me about it. But also, I almost want to say thank you for teaching it to people because I think that's a wonderful thing to be doing.
Lauren: Thanks. It was important to me because I have some physical limitations and so I may not be able to do a, you know, a downward dog and sun salutation and all that and not followed my bed. But I can do this. I will just say,
Lauren: Because people can't see you right now that as you do this, you're sitting in your chair doing these amazing movements as you demonstrate. And I'm like, wow, you can fly. I love that. Thank you.
Monica: I forgot that it's audio only.
Lauren: Yes. I like that part. I like describing sometimes to people what's going on. It's nice. So in the process of living with your health challenges and the body that you have over the past, sir, certainly your whole life, but then over the past eight years, you have mentioned to me that this has been a time that you've learned to show compassion and grace to yourself in a different way.
Monica: Yeah. And it is a daily practice to remind myself to be kind to myself, be understanding with myself and at first learn this, maybe I knew it all ready, you know, someone just had to bring it out. But I first learned this from one of my supervisors back there, Dr. Claudia Kernan. At the time, I had these very high expectations, very like type a behavior. Like, Oh, you know, I've got to get this done and this done and this done. I'm like a super planner and you know, get shit done-er that's who I am. And I couldn't do it anymore because of the fatigue, because of the pain, because of these, you know, limitations at the time. I also had a very long commute from a Downey to UCLA at that time, four days a week. And I was like, you know, two hours each way, you know, in traffic. And so I started to have these negative self statements of, you know, oh, I can do better. Oh, I'm so lazy. Oh, what's wrong with me? All I do is sleep all the time. And I think that she could tell what was gone on cause she was like, you know what Monica, the grace that you give to other people, you need to do that for yourself. Realizing that you are good enough and back there you're better than good enough. You're more than enough even with what you have going on. And then reminding me to shift my perspective of like my body will tell me when I need to rest and it’s actually a good thing. Resting is actually a good thing. And recharging and, and that's when I started to appreciate more fully the time that I spent at home with my family and not breaking out my laptop even when I'm at home and things like that. Actually giving my body a break and then also in my mind a break and being okay with it. In fact, celebrating myself for it. In fact, scheduling it. And so that was difficult. That was hard. And the way that someone shared it with me is, okay, if you're so used to having these super high expectations for yourself where you're not showing yourself compassion, then do it for the little girl inside of you. Do it for that little one who needs your understanding that needs your mercy and that needs a break. Doggonit.
Lauren: Absolutely, and I love that mentor of yours who reminded you that you have it within you to give to others and that you're so deserving of it. And I also love the word grace and one of my favorite questions to ask that's my like self reflection, grace question is God or universe or whatever. But the question is how would God see me right now? How does God see me right now? Not just right now, but overall really is more the question, how does God see me? If you could describe yourself through God's eyes, what would God say about you?
Monica: I'm a little hesitant in how I answer this question because my husband would say I would, you know, name this long list of all these awesome attributes and then my husband would say, and she's humble quite sarcastically. So, I'm not sure. I know that God would say that I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and that I'm perfect just as I am. And I love the dialectic or the counterbalance between I am both a masterpiece and a work in progress. Both are true and that's, that's a good thing.
Lauren: That's beautiful. I love that. I feel like that gets me down to the heart of back to what you said earlier, which is what is really important.
Monica: Yeah.
Lauren: I think about how the divine, you know, if we assign that meaning depending on our belief systems, but like if I imagine the divine can see me, feel me, love me, and I can imagine myself through those eyes, then I'm connecting with my highest self. I'm connecting with my heart. I'm connecting with my compassion and the part of me that does know I'm good enough as I am in this moment. Whether I spent the day resting or writing or painting or running, whatever I did is enough.
Monica: Yes, and as you were talking, I was thinking about the picture of like an infant, like a newborn baby. When you look at that baby and you're caressing their soft skin and you're just being very tender with that baby, that's how God is with us. That's how I need to be tender with myself, but with the little girl inside of me and what I encourage my clients to do as well because we don't put those harsh expectations on the baby.
Lauren: No, we do not.
Monica: In fact, when they're crying, we comfort them.
Lauren: It's pure love. That's a great thing to remember. What does it mean to you to live a fulfilling life and has that definition of fulfillment been impacted by your health challenges?
Monica: I think to live a fulfilling life, my schedule is not full.
Lauren: Mm.
Monica: It's fulfilled, meaning that I have things daily that just bring me a smile, whether that be sipping on a cup of tea slowly and chatting with my mom or whatever the case might be. I feel fulfilled when I do things that spark more joy and laughter and peace.
Lauren: I like that. I want a calendar like that. I think I'm going to make one.
Monica: Yes. Starting today.
Lauren: Yes. Well, and I think actually part of why I like it so much is because it's been a goal of mine to have more free room and space on my calendar, which is a privilege to even want that because that hasn't always been the case. I've had times where I wish I could just put more on my calendar, but I'm too tired. But I love that you hold, there's a sacredness to the time that's spent slowly savoring the good stuff.
Monica: Like a friend of mine told me one day, I think it was like a super busy day or whatever, and she was just like, I'm gonna need you to stop and ease into the morning.
Lauren: Ooh.
Monica: Ease into the morning. And so that's what I try to be intentional about now. Like I'll lay out my clothes the night before so I'm not like, you know, rush like, Oh no, this doesn't match this, that has a stain on it, you know, you know, and, and really just wake up. I'll do like a little meditation or prayer in the morning. You know, I've tried to be intentional about doing that before checking my Facebook and Instagram and really just ease into it and then it makes such a huge difference on the rest of the day.
Lauren: I love that. How we, I remember Louise Hay says “how we start our day is how we live our day and how we live our day is how we live our life.” So no pressure, but the mornings are important.
Monica: No pressure, no pressure.
Lauren: Do you have any funny stories from your health journey?
Monica: It has my immaturity, but as soon as you said like do you have any funny story? I was like, has there been a time when, yes. Actually I can tell you, and I can blame this on lupus, but this is just the first thing that came to my mind, so my older daughter, she loves to tell the story of the time that I passed gas and the vibrato, like it was like an earthquake. She said it shook the picture on the wall. I believe she made this up. However, yeah, that's all that I can think of.
Lauren: Favorite part of that story was now I believe she made this up. I like this story because first of all, you're not the first person to tell this similar type of body function story at the end, unrelated to the health challenge, which is like the best part because it has to do with being a person. It has to do with having a body, which we can all relate. We can all relate to that story. Although she might've made up.
Monica: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm sure we live in Southern California. I'm sure it was like a small earthquake that just wasn't reported.
Lauren: I like that. I don't know how old she is, but I like to imagine that that's her cockctail hour, you know, story that she tells when she's up there gatherings with the adults.
Monica: Yeah, like. Oh by the way, let me tell you the time when….I'm like serious. You just met these people.
Lauren: Right? No. Yeah, that's hilarious. What do you have now that you might not have had without lupus?
Monica: I have a stronger conviction, stronger faith, even though it's like counter again, like the way I was raised, like I am so confident that who I am and how I am all folds together perfectly for my purpose in life. And I would not have had that without lupus. I would not have had this heart and desire to serve others who are struggling with their physical health, struggling with coming to grips with this huge life adjustment and so many other things. So yeah, I have a stronger conviction that all things work together for good.
Lauren: Beautiful. It's like a deep knowing. There is one last fill in the blanks. Okay, so finish this sentence. This is not what I ordered,
Monica: but I'm surprised that it tastes so good.
Lauren: Ooh, I like that. Thank you so much for joining me. This was really fun.
Monica: Thank you so much for having me.