Episode 62: Chronic Quarantine Life
Guests: Latasha Doyle and Lily Sloane
Lauren: I was thinking we could all just start by... I'll start by saying a thing. So I wanted to do something to acknowledge that this pandemic is happening. And I was like, do I just make a really long intro to one of the episodes? And then I was like, that's a weird way to do it. And I knew I didn't want to do a solo episode because I don't enjoy doing those as much, and I really wanted to hear from others as well.
Lauren: And the two of you have been part of the podcast team for a while now. And now that you've both been on the podcast, it's an exciting opportunity to all just sit together and share about what it's been like. So I wanted to invite you, anyone can start, to share a little like update. How you do it in the pandemic?
Lily: Latasha and I are both like, well, we both are smiling... We're on Zoom right now. As many are now experienced with it at this point. And when you ask that, both Latasha and I had those like, holy shit, big smiles on our faces like, this is fine. No problems here.
Latasha: Yeah. We're good.
Lily: I don't know. That's how I was interpreting your look Latasha because that was mine.
Latasha: Yeah. My initial thought was I don't even know where to start.
Lily: Yeah.
Latasha: Lauren said either one of you could start and I was like, I don't know how. So-
Lily: I think that's really reflective of my experience. It's so mind blowing. It's so discombobulating. Like, how can I have clear put together thoughts about this. And I think there's moments where I do, but a lot of the time it's just like, holy shit. The world is just not at all what it was a month ago and how are we supposed to adjust to that?
Lauren: Yeah. Your check-in is a question.
Lily: Yes. Let me answer your question with another question.
Lauren: How are we to adjust to all of this? Yeah. And I think that's actually a really helpful check in for me, because you'll notice I didn't start by checking in either, because I don't have any answer either.
Latasha: I think for me the biggest thing is realizing how much we can adapt to in such a short time and not like successfully adapt. I'm not saying that everybody's got it figured out. But just this like, "Oh, okay. Well, this is what it is now and we're just going to have to chart the course from here." That's been really strange for me because within a matter of three days I went from, "Oh yeah, I should probably not go outside too much. I probably won't be going to concerts," to "Holy shit, my husband's not going to work anymore because he can bring it home to me."
Latasha: And then it's been four weeks. Like there were so many things happened in a 72-hour period for us and then now it's like, I don't even remember how we got here.
Lauren: Yeah, it's like you blinked and four weeks went by in a way.
Latasha: Yeah. And then at the same time it's been like so boring and so slow.
Lauren: And so slow.
Lily: Right. I think that time warp thing is the thing that everyone I talk to is speaking about, just how time just doesn't exist in any... I mean time has always been relative, right? But this has heightened that experience, that internal and external experience of time being this really wonky thing that's not actually objective and not actually measurable in our felt experience.
Lauren: Well, yeah, it's disorienting. And that's one of my favorite things as of a year ago when I interviewed Sarah on the podcast. It was episode one of season two. She talked about her traumatic brain injury and how disorienting it was. And there was a sort of reverence that I began to develop from that conversation around the concept of disorientation because it's always unsettling.
Lauren: That's the definition of disorientation. And as you know, from listening to the podcast and being my friend, I love to find the little jewels. I love to find the gifts. And so one of the things that I like about disorientation is that it also disorients me from what isn't working. So I mean it's like everything falls apart. But in that some of the things needed to fall apart so.
Lily: I mean I've joked over the last few years about wanting to burn it all down, and there is a way that this is doing that, both personally and collectively this quality of like... Nothing gets to be normal right now. So there is potential opportunity for reinvention, but it's an incredibly painful, mind-boggling, awkward experience.
Lauren: Yeah. And to go with what both of you were just sharing. The challenge of this time I think is to be with the challenge instead of trying to change it necessarily. Because it's happening. It really is happening and I'm not saying don't do things to take care of yourself. Of course, we want to be doing self-care and if we feel creative, certainly create things. But I also don't want to put pressure on myself or anybody else to learn a new language or-
Lily: You haven't learned Russian yet? I mean, I've-
Lauren: Not yet.
Lily: I've learned Russian, but I've only just started on Cantonese.
Lauren: How embarrassing Lily.
Lily: I know.
Lauren: I'll give my little check-in, which is that my partner and I right before this all really went down. We parted for what was supposed to be like a 48-hour period. And it turned into... Actually that was right when they closed the border between Canada and the US, because his business trip was up into Canada. And so it feels like a movie plot or something where it's like we're star crossed lovers and we aren't in the same place. So that's been really humbling and it took some time.
Lauren: I feel like I was in a grieving process just around that fact alone. And then also integrating everything else that's going on, and just feeling all the feelings that come up. And I was thinking about how I created this podcast. You may recall that I didn't create the podcast till a few years after my MS diagnosis. Because apparently my style is to take time, rest, integrate and then make a thing. And what's happening right now, is we're all going through this thing at the same time.
Lauren: So I'm trying to rest and integrate and reflect, but also avail myself at the appropriate level and in a way that feels right for me without stretching too much. But then it also feels like a nice opportunity to be messy and vulnerable and just be like, "Well, I don't have all the answers." And I think that's part of why I wanted to do this with both of you, is because we're in it together.
Lauren: And one of the things that can be easy to do as a podcast host is feel like, "Oh, I'm supposed to have all the answers." And the truth is I don't think people really connect with me having all the answers. I think they connect with me not having the answers with them. You know?
Lily: It's highly relatable.
Lauren: Yes.
Latasha: Well, and I think right now if you were to come out and say, "Oh, I've got all the answers." People would not believe you because this is unprecedented. None of us know what the hell is going on or how to fix it or how to even navigate it. So it doesn't resonate with people for you to come out and give them a solid form for hurdling these obstacles.
Lauren: Yeah.
Lily: Yeah. Something I noticed is that when things are out of our control and there's so much about this that's out of our control, just like with having a chronic illness or any kind of illness. It's really like prime territory for inner critics, to get really loud, because that's the part of us that is acting on a fear and wants to enact control. It's the fascist part of ourselves.
Lily: And so I've just noticed how loud mine has gotten in certain ways during this whole process, over things that are so absurd. And I've noticed it with other friends too, like feeling guilt and shame about all these things that we're doing or not doing in the face of a completely insane situation like a totally... Like why would we know how to do that and also some of those things literally impossible, literally impossible.
Lily: And so it's been really hard and also interesting to just see how that part of myself functions and attempts to function and attempts to make sense out of chaos.
Latasha: I have a very similar problem with that, just based on my personality type. I feel like this is a test for all of us in individual ways and for me it's the few things I could control like my work schedule and my productivity. Nope, no more and just recognizing the impulse in myself to want to control that and also needing to let go of that in the same way I've let go of other things, that are related more to my condition, such as how I'm going to feel when I wake up.
Latasha: I have no control. And now it's like I literally have no control over how tomorrow goes, because the Internet's got out so much, because we've had so many people on the internet that it crashes. I don't have control over that, which means I don't necessarily have control over my work output, and normal life. I can't go to the grocery store. I have to let go of all of those things that were still small things that I could control as a person with my condition. And that's been a really interesting exercise in my brain. Just watching that change so rapidly.
Lily: It's so fast.
Lauren: Yeah. And the themes of control of surrender and then also what you were just saying, Lily, about managing that inner critic that we all have somewhere, even if it's the size of a popcorn kernel, it's still there. But that all these themes are coming up. And one of the questions that I have, for our whole community and certainly for us in our conversation is, how do the themes that are showing up for you right now relate to some of the themes you've already been working with as someone living with health challenges?
Lily: It really relates, because I think the same themes of control, are their control and not control. And being in a body that has needs, and my body needs to go outside. My body needs to be near other human beings. My body needs to be touched by other living things. And some of those things are extremely limited right now. And some of those things are literally not happening at all. I have not had physical contact with another living being in over a month now. I never knew that that was a challenge I was going to face in my life.
Lily: So it relates though because it's working with how... There are things that my body and me, as part of my body is experiencing and have experienced that are both internal and related to functioning of those systems and external in relation to my interaction with the world, and my environment, and other people. These are experiences that are happening and they're happening to me, and they're happening to other people as well. And it's just not something that I have a full say over.
Lily: And that is terrifying to be living with and existing in a body that I depend on so much. And that depends on so much from my environment, and to be so limited, and not know when the next bit of nourishment is going to come. And so that's something that I know I've had to work on a lot in my life and this is bringing it to, just like a new level that I never ever would've pictured or expected.
Lauren: So it's like grad school for the unknown.
Lily: God when do we overcome that? When do we stop having to deal with the unknown? When do we finally know?
Latasha: That's the-
Lauren: I don't know.
Latasha: ... million dollar question right there.
Lauren: I love the question though. And thank you for sharing about that, because I think this is one of the things about being human is having a body. That's the main qualifier, that's the qualifier for being human. It's that you have a body.
Lily: As of now, there is some movement towards transhumanism. That we may-
Lauren: Well, that's another podcast.
Lily: ... see play out in the future. Just download my consciousness.
Lauren: And in having a body like you're talking about the needs, the sense of touch and nourishment and how much is it in your control. And so that's something that you've dealt with before through just living with health challenges, but that also you're feeling and it's like a different way. It's a whole different perspective on those same needs. But you're learning them in a new way.
Lily: Yeah. Yeah. And like really seeing them as bodily needs.
Lauren: Yeah.
Lily: I think. And I think that the other stuff is all there too. It's just that now just the thing has been thrown into chaos. It's not those things that a part of me and sort of gotten used to living with.
Latasha: I think for me, there's a lot of this theme around how much we affect each other as humans. For me, it's always very frustrated that people look at me and they don't necessarily see everything that would limit my ability to operate as they do. I tend to get a lot of really rude comments about stares and the way my voice sounds from my chronic allergies and stuff like that.
Latasha: But I think now we're just beginning to realize how much we affect each other's health. And so people like us, we have to be a little bit more conscious of, "Okay, well if I go into an airport during the winter, I'm going to come out of it with the freaking flu." And now we're seeing just how much our movements, our interactions affect others on a health scale.
Latasha: But also on a personal scale because like you said, we're not able to touch people. We're not able to go see people. We're not able to have that interaction. And we're realizing for the first time ever that we need each other to really have a human experience. Whether that human experience is keeping each other healthy by keeping distance or realizing how much... I never realized how much being in line at a grocery store would freaking matter to me.
Latasha: That's where the level of human interaction and impact that I'm feeling, it's twisted a little bit. Because before it was like, I wish people just understood what I'm going through and now it's everybody's conscious of, "Okay, I'm wearing a mask to keep other people safe." Maybe not everybody, I haven't met any a-holes, but I know they exist. They wouldn't last very long if they met me so.
Lauren: So you're talking about a shift from just wanting to be understood into, well now I actually feel like people are not only understanding me, but generally the concept of how much our being in the world impacts each other and certainly with immunity or lack thereof, knowing that folks even a few months ago wouldn't have had this level of understanding?
Latasha: Exactly.
Lauren: About what it's like.
Latasha: And it gives me hope, because we've seen how much people step up to take care of people who would be at risk. People are choosing to give up certain liberties to keep people like us safe and that's powerful.
Lauren: And until now, there hasn't been a lot of education publicly about the fact that people have compromised immune systems. There aren't commercials about it. I can tell you how much a cheesy crust pizza costs, because of much, but I can't tell you-
Lily: What is the going rate?
Lauren: I'll tell you what, it's more than $10 these days.
Lily: Really?
Lauren: But back in my day, it used to be you could get a pizza for $10. But now that I live with an autoimmune disease, I can definitely attest to the fact that I had no idea before this how serious it could be to be in the same room as somebody when there are some symptoms and they have a compromised immune system. And now I get it from the other end because I take an immuno-compromising drug, and I think it's given me a lot more respect for the fact that... I actually, even with that drug still have a more robust immune system than some of the folks in our community. So it's so important that we're looking out for each other. But there aren't a lot of like public health tips on how to do that until now.
Latasha: Yeah.
Lily: And obviously the level to which we're doing it is not sustainable. It's not like I can keep going forever not getting to touch other human beings. I need to hug my friends. I need to someday hopefully have contact with like a partner or something.
Lauren: Yeah.
Lily: But I do hope that it changes how we behave in public in a way that is sustainable.
Lauren: Yeah. And there was something that you said, Latasha, that gave me chills. So the chills quotient has been reached in the episode.
Latasha: Yes.
Lauren: Which is you said very clearly, we need each other in order to have a human experience. And I think that that's one of the double edged swords of living with a health challenge, is we start to see how very much we do need each other and how vulnerable we are. And when we're dealing with something on the level that we're dealing with right now globally. I think in a lot of ways brings us to our knees but in a really powerful way that can help us to see how precious we are as individuals, and how precious the people in the world are around us.
Lauren: Like you were talking about just standing in line at the grocery store. I miss seeing a little kid and giving them a little smirk or I miss having someone ask me if I know how to find the bathrooms. I don't talk to people like that anymore. And part of me feels like in a way, it's taken the fog out of my vision of seeing everyone's divinity, if that makes sense. I love thinking about, "Oh, how would God see the world?" How would all the goodness in the universe see the world?
Lauren: And how would I see the people in the world without the fog of myself importance or the fog of I can do this all on my own? And when we take that fog away, it's like, "Oh, right." Every moment is precious. Every person is precious. Every interaction is precious. And I can feel that in a more visceral level right now.
Latasha: I'm going to have that, What If God Was One Of Us song stuck in my head this entire conversation now?
Lauren: Lily, can we license that please?
Lily: Yeah.
Latasha: Oops.
Lily: Yeah, I think that might cost like 20K. But I think it's worth it.
Lauren: All right. Everyone get on Patreon, just kidding.
Lily: I mean, hopefully not a slob like one of us.
Latasha: I mean he's, she, it is going to be if he's in quarantine as well so.
Lauren: That's true.
Lily: Right?
Latasha: We're all just living our quarantine pajama life so.
Lily: Yeah. Yeah. Washing hands, like one of us.
Lauren: That's right.
Latasha: I think for me, this has brought up... I was talking to my good friends who, Lauren knows I talk about literally all the time, we were talking about to what extent I'm willing to sacrifice other humans for my own health. Because even if they were to like tell everybody to go back to work tomorrow, I can't go. I can't go out into the world until this is pretty much quashed. And I was thinking to what extent am I willing to not see other humans, or to be in a human space because I'm not going to be able to travel.
Latasha: I'm not going to be able to go to concerts. I'm not going to be able to do XYZ for a long time. And that's terrifying to me, because I don't know... It's not like there's an end date for everybody, but there's a closer end date, that what we're looking at kind of thing. And it's just to what extent do I want to give this up still? And that's a hard conversation to have with yourself because I don't know the answer.
Lauren: Yeah. And Latasha you know, I'm so glad you said that because it's a conversation I've been having with my partner as well around when we do reunite, when the border opens again, when things are back to "normal." Things are not going to be back to normal for most of us on a spiritual level. But then for many of us on a physical level, not being able to still go out when "everyone else."
Lauren: It's like that feeling of everyone else's out at the party but me. And I said to my partner, I hope you know that that means that you too will need to not be going out, and taking ride shares and going to events because whatever you do is going to affect me. So it's like having a vulnerable immune system means, this could be going on for a really long time.
Latasha: Yup.
Lily: And this is time that, yeah, I don't think that most of us could have fathomed being in a situation like this. And just to be clear, I'm not immunocompromised as far as I know. I have other health challenges. So I know that you two are dealing with another layer of it that I'm not, which is definitely a privilege for me, that I don't hae that danger when I walk outside. But, I think that even so, this is just an unprecedented period of unknown length where we are isolated in so many ways. And I know some people are dealing with not being able to get a break from people, specific people.
Lauren: Yeah. And that's very real.
Lily: That's another big challenge, you know?
Lauren: Latasha just put a finger in the air.
Latasha: The real reason I'm hiding in the closet.
Lily: That can be isolating too. It's like being stuck with the same people day after day. I hear from friends with kids that specifically just like every day is just groundhog's day. It's just over and over and over. There aren't the usual things that that give them the opportunity to break it up. Whereas, I can get real weird in my apartment.
Latasha: I think that's been one of the most interesting parts for me is seeing how it affects everybody's daily life so intensely and in so many different ways. So if you're alone, obviously you have this craving human touch and craving human interaction that you just aren't going to get. And then there's the opposite spectrum of somebody at home with their partner and their kids, and they have four dogs and it's chaos. It's showing just this different level of humanity that I never ever would have considered before.
Lauren: Yeah, it's the extremes. One end of the spectrum gives you respect for the other end. Like, "Oh wow, I can really see how important being with my partner is. And if we were just seeing each other for this much time, I would really appreciate how good alone time can be."
Lily: I think I tweeted recently that this all would be a lot easier if we all had mansions with basement bowling alleys and swimming pools and tennis courts, and sprawling lawns. But it turns out most of us don't.
Lauren: Yeah, it's weird.
Lily: So weird. I have one room that I exist in and I've had to get really creative about how I make it feel different-
Lauren: Yeah.
Lily: ... when I can.
Latasha: So fascinating.
Lauren: Whereas basement bowling alley that would have taken up a good week of the last month.
Latasha: I know right.
Lauren: Just fun times, strikes and spares.
Lily: I would be so good at bowling now.
Latasha: I think it's so strange somebody... I have to parse out my energy so specifically across my day, that how do I give myself structure when there is no structure? And how do I stretch out my energy when there literally is none to stretch out? I wake up in the morning and it's like my alarm went off, but did I really have to get up, because there's really nothing except for a few client calls that I have to do that give my day any structure. And then after that it's a free for all again.
Lauren: It can be like overwhelming to have such a blank canvas in some ways. You could do your day any number of ways.
Latasha: I don't like that though, because my whole brain is like, no, we need to know what we're doing. And then it's like there's only so much I could do.
Lauren: Right. Totally. I asked the patrons of the podcast for some questions for us and there are several, and one of them is, do you realize that all your names start with L and thus what fun name will you give yourselves?
Lily: Okay, I came up with a couple options.
Lauren: Okay, good.
Lily: I've got Litashen.
Lauren: Ooh.
Lily: And I've got Laurashi.
Latasha: Cool.
Lauren: That one sounds like a rash.
Latasha: Sounds like Dothraki name actually.
Lauren: Oh.
Lily: Right, yeah, yeah. But maybe we could do better than that.
Latasha: I can't all of mine sound like an STD, so no.
Lily: So maybe Litashen because it's not a rash.
Lauren: Yeah. Litashen sounds excellent. So thank you, we've answered that question. Latasha, do you vote for this name as well?
Lily: Yup.
Lauren: Okay, good. I'm want to make sure everybody's cool with it.
Latasha: Unanimous.
Lauren: And then here's another question from one of our listeners. How are you handling your chronic illness and medical needs right now and are you having to advocate extra to get what you need?
Latasha: They just sent me a letter letting me know that there is a drug shortage of the inhaler that I need, which is literally the only inhaler that helps me breathe. So that's been a little bit iffy at best. They let me know that I could get a 30-day supply which is literally, I can keep breathing another 30 days. I do have a couple inhalers that I have from the last batch that I ordered, so I could probably get through a 90-day supply. But it's still that question of when is this shortage going to be over?
Latasha: Because of the nature of my condition, I have Marfan Syndrome. I have restrictive lung disease and Asthma and I also have Aortic issues. So basically if I were to get COVID, I would have to be very clear with the medical team. And this is something that I just learned today. How to advocate for myself in the event that I do need to be put on a ventilator, which is the odds are pretty high if I were to get it, that I would have to be put on a ventilator.
Latasha: The risks of lung rupture are very high in patients like me. So how you have that conversation with the team if you're already sick, who do you tell if you needed to have care and you weren't conscious, stuff like that. So on top of navigating just getting my freaking medication to stay alive, it's also really understanding what the implications of this virus would mean and navigating that because it's so weird to have to navigate something new with my condition.
Lauren: Right.
Latasha: And just trying to educate myself on how it would really affect me.
Lauren: Yeah. It's like so many more layers on top of what you've already been managing.
Latasha: Yeah.
Lauren: And it's very scary to find out that you don't have access to a medication that allows you to breathe well.
Lily: I think that's one of the things about this virus that even in people without breathing issues already is so... I don't know, so existentially, deeply unsettling is the idea of not being able to breathe, you know? And that's something that you live with Latasha and breath is so vital and suffocation, or any experience of restriction to that is so terrifying on such a deeply human level.
Latasha: I see Lauren practicing deep breathing right now.
Lauren: Yeah. I was like, I wonder how many people listening to this are taking a deep breath, with us right now.
Latasha: I appreciate it.
Lauren: And I so take breathing for granted. It's so undetected like 99.9% of the time.
Lily: I will say that when I do have to leave the house and I wear a cloth mask, I do not take breathing for granted, because man is that uncomfortable. I just start hyperventilating at a certain point.
Latasha: Yeah. I have that conversation with myself so much like, do wear this mask and not be able to breathe, or do I wear this mask and hope I don't pass out, like what do I do?
Lily: Right. It's like, do I want to breathe now or later?
Latasha: It's so weird and for me it's so weird to see how people react to that, because I feel like I just want to tell people that's what it's like normally with my lung conditions. But it's also a level of empathy. Like collectively we all are experiencing this, like, "Oh God, I have a fever. If I get short of breath, what do I do?" And it's just that moment of like, I totally understand that panic and just like, I can't imagine how scary it would be to have it for the first time. And that's probably more terrifying than what I would go through because of something that I'm unfortunately familiar with.
Lily: So in some ways, having these really difficult, scary problems can be a preparation for-
Latasha: For sure.
Lily: ...something like this.
Latasha: I think obviously it would suck real hard if I got sick. But I also know enough about my medical needs and what sick really means for me, that I would be able to navigate it a little bit more smooth than somebody who has never had a health challenge in their life before. I wouldn't maybe necessarily have the best results, but I would get the care I need faster< I think.
Lauren: Yeah, I think it is interesting feeling like I've had advanced level training and self-advocacy in the medical world and getting to this place of like, I sent a really, I think thoughtful letter to my neurologist just as everything was starting to get real around here. And said, "Hey, I have an infusion scheduled for next week, should I still show up for it?" And she did not give me a yes or no answer, but she did give me a really thoughtful response which let me know, which let me know the risks in all those cases, at least the known risks, whether I got the infusion or not.
Lauren: And I actually wound up deciding not to get the infusion, both because I didn't want to go to the hospital and expose myself. And I also, I'm grateful to say that so far I haven't had new lesions for over a year. And so that's a sign that the medication is working, but then it's also like, "Well, I need to keep taking it in order for it to work," but some people have gone longer without the medication. And so I had to make this decision.
Lauren: Am I willing to risk the potential of new disease activity as a result of not having my medication infusion, which I get twice a year. And how long will I have to wait? And now I'm sitting with the question of is it going to be worse in the hospitals? Is the medication unit still be available in a few weeks or months from now? Because how long am I putting this medication off, because once I said no almost a month ago, it's like, was that my one window that I should have gotten it?
Lauren: So I'm kind of questioning myself a little bit and it's very vulnerable to not know. But it did feel good in my own way to feel like, I'm making this decision consciously and I have a lot of hope for how things will pan out. But the truth is I just don't know.
Lily: Right. We're having to weigh a lot of factors and make it as educated as possible of a guess. And yeah, there's such a limit to that information. And so then in the unknown, it's really easy to spin and ruminate on any doubt that's there.
Lauren: Yeah. One thing that I really appreciated was Ishmael from one of our last episodes, and I, were checking in a few weeks ago and I was telling him that I hadn't heard back from my neurologist yet and he was like... He was really strongly encouraging me to get back in touch with her and follow-up. And he said, "We need to advocate for ourselves more than ever right now." And I think he was right.
Lauren: And when I went to go email her, I saw that she had responded. And so it was really cool to have the support of another chronic illness buddy saying, "Get to it. Don't be passive, write that email." And in my mind I was like, "Oh, I don't want to bother them. They're so busy." And it's like, you have to be... I got that message from him loud and clear, you have to be your advocate right now.
Latasha: Well, and just for people listening to know that, especially for a specialist or a general care practitioner, they're not the ones fighting COVID in the ICU right now. They're the ones who are possibly doing testing and stuff like that, but they still need to be available to their patient base. So do not assume they're too busy right now. That's the whole point of the ICU in the hospitals, is to make sure that they still have their resources to care for people as they need basic daily care or ongoing care. So that's my two cents.
Lily: Yeah, that's an important reminder because I think that's been my process is just feeling like, well under this stress and this fear bubbles up every bodily experience I'm having feels pronounced. And then my back went out last weekend and just different... I'm not saying that's because of stress, it could have been a factor. But it felt hard to think about emailing my doctor. I felt guilty.
Lily: It's interesting how there's so many layers in this experience, for me of guilt coming in around the privileges that I do have and the ways that I am okay. I'm feeling it emotionally more than anything else. And so then a lot of stuff can come up around, "Oh, this is a bother. This is too much." And I think that that's been a feature of my experience with my body anyway. Is that it's really, I'm just being dramatic or I'm over-blowing this is too much. I shouldn't bother other people.
Lily: And it's showing up with physical needs, it's showing up with emotional needs too. And it's a real tug of war, because the needs are so strong and they're going to win over the part of me that's feeling the guilt and shame for having them. But it's coming out in messy ways for sure.
Lauren: Yeah. Well, I appreciate you saying that too, because I think that's so going to be so resonant for a lot of people hearing this. The same types of psychological challenges that we have before COVID are so-
Latasha: Amplified.
Lauren: ... it's the same stuff but just magnified. Yeah. Here and now and for a lot of us, Lily and me included doing it without anybody around to give a squeeze or a hug.
Lily: Yeah.
Lauren: I want to say, I think there's so much more to this conversation. So maybe we will reconvene at some point in the near future if you're up for it, because I find talking to the two of you is easier than breathing. It's so fun so. And I just feel very nourished from sitting with you and spending time together. So for everybody listening, if you would like to submit a question for us, for any one of us or for all three of us, please feel free to write at hello@thisisnotwhatiordered.com, and let us know what you're wondering, or if there's a topic you'd like us to focus on.
Lauren: Because, there's a lot more here, there's more conversation to be heard, and I know we're all in this together and I think the themes we're dealing with are just so very important to be discussing, in connection even though we're not physically in the same space. But before we finish, I want to just check in and see if you have any last thoughts that you would want to share with folks who are listening?
Lily: I guess I just really want to reiterate again because I know I've needed to hear this on repeat. That this is all really weird and it's really hard. And it might be weird and hard for you in your own unique way, and in some ways that are also collectively understood and you're also likely to have some amount of privilege that's unique to your situation as well. But, your unique pain in any other experience that you're having is valid.
Latasha: I would just piggyback onto that and say whatever you need to do right now to get through the day is okay. I think that there's so much hype, let's say, going around about what you should be doing with this time. Especially if you are lucky enough, "to be home" and to not be super busy. But don't let other people's definition of how you should be spending this time affect you and especially impact how you are talking to yourself, because right now it's just you and your brain basically. And you need everybody on the same page and you've got to love yourself through it.
Lauren: Yeah. And I feel like with all of these situations, whether its chronic illness, health challenges, disability, COVID crisis, whatever it is. It all comes back to like giving yourself the compassion, the love, the grace that you can muster for yourself. And sometimes the compassion has to do with the fact that we don't have as much compassion in a given moment. But to understand like at the end of the day, you're the one you're with a 100% of the time.
Lauren: And whether we like that or not, all these difficult circumstances bring us back to that fact. And so I really agree with what both of you just shared. I've heard a few people saying, "Yeah, I'm going through a hard time, but everybody else's too." And I just want to remind everyone that even though we're all going through this and it's cool that we can at least connect on that level, that doesn't mean that you don't get to feel your experience.
Lauren: And it's important not to minimize that, as being valid and worth feeling and processing. So, yeah, in many ways I think we get each other. I just think there are some ways that we can also be like, "Oh, I feel a way that's different than how other people are feeling." I've talked to some people who have said it's not been a hard time for me in the way that a lot of people have shared. And there's some guilt around that and that's okay too.
Lauren: You can be actually having a lovely day right now and that there's nothing bad about that. You can be enjoying this moment and that's great. So no pressure to be feeling a difficult feeling either.
Latasha: Yeah. I mean, I guess that's one benefit of this time, is if someone says, "You know, I had a pretty good day," and if someone else says, "You know, I just cried all day," or another person, is like, "I just sent angry tweets all day." I'm like, "Yeah."
Lily: All of those?
Lauren: Those all sound legit? That's great. Well, thanks for joining me. I really enjoyed sitting with the two of you.
Lily: Yeah. Thanks for having us.
Latasha: Thank you.