Episode 50: Hearing Loss + Listening Inward
Guest: Melissa Platt
Lauren: Thank you for joining me today.
Melissa: I'm really happy to be joining you. Um, yeah. As I mentioned before we started, it's a huge honor to be interviewing with you because your podcast is, that's such a big impact on me getting through my own challenges with my body and what my body was telling me, and it's kind of surreal and exciting to be talking to you now in this position.
L: Yeah. I'm, I'm also excited and really glad, first off, that the podcast has been helpful to you, but also that this is why we know each other.
M: Yeah.
L: Because we're connecting through this community. Yeah.
M: Yeah. I definitely feel, I definitely feel part of the community.
L: Yeah.
M: Yeah.
L: That's so cool.
M: Yeah.
L: And now you're here and you're, you are the podcast.
M: Hi.
L: You know, you're part of it. You know, this is something that I think just sitting together and being with each other weirdly, maybe not weirdly, but to me it's like kind of bizarre that just sitting together on a couch can be helpful to other people, but it can, you know.
M: Yeah. That's actually something I was thinking on the way over here because being interviewed makes me nervous and then I was thinking about, it's not about me, it's about, it's about a community and it's about the people listening. Like I was listening to other people.
L: Yeah.
M: Earlier on. And that helps me feel less nervous about it.
L: Totally. It is sort of like there's a huge community of people that aren't in the room right now, but that we're a part of together, so we get to be kind of together this way.
M: Yeah.
L: Thanks for doing it. And for people who don't know you, can you give me a little summary of your body story and your health journey?
M: Yeah, so I think the main area that I'm aware of with my health journey currently is my hearing loss. And I don't have any idea when that actually started. If I was born with some amount of hearing loss or what, but I first noticed it in 2010 there was a week during that time when they're three different things that happened during the same week. It's like one of these things where it's like the universe is conspiring to get my attention about something.
L: Mmhmm.
M: And the first thing I think, I don't know the order, one of the things was I was in Colorado visiting my sister and she was behind me walking a few feet behind me and at a certain point she stopped me and she was like, Melissa, I've been calling your name for, I don't even know how long. Like maybe you should consider getting your hearing checked. And I kind of just brushed it off. And then I was, I was in grad school at the time. So then I was in a seminar and we were doing kind of small group discussions within the larger room. And I noticed that I could not understand in that context, I couldn't understand what people in my group were saying cause there were people chatting in the background.
L: Yeah.
M: And then the third thing was, I was teaching statistics. They happened to be randomly assigned to teach statistics, which was exciting in the first place. But I was up in the front of the lecture hall and one of my students in the back of the room said, Melissa booboo, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, what? And they said, Melissa bull, blah blah blah. And they had to go over to where they were and say, what did you just say? And I said, your computer's talking. And then I went back up to the front of the room and check my computer and there was a YouTube video that had been playing and I had no idea about any of that. So after those three things happen, I think that was all one week.
L: Wow.
M: It was like, okay, I'm going to get my hearing tested for sure. And audiologist tested me and I thought it was going to be normal. And she was like, you have about 50% hearing loss. Have you ever worn hearing aids? And I said, no. And she said, how, like how basically like how have you been doing this? And I just like burst into tears. And I was like, I didn't know I had a problem. I didn't know. Um, and I got hearing aids shortly thereafter and they remember walking outside and, um, hearing the sound of my flip flops and it realizing like, I didn't used to hear that sound and hearing a couple of birds and I was like, I don't think I've been hearing that either, but I'm not sure. And let's, it's been a journey since then.
L: Wow. Yeah. And, and too, there's, just as you were telling that, I was thinking about how in some ways it was almost like you're the last to know.
M: Yeah. Like everybody around me is telling me. Yeah. I never thought of it like that.
L: Or that. Yeah. And even in that moment, like you didn't know about the YouTube video or you didn't know that and you're being, they're telling you but you're, you're there, you're present, you're awake, you're alive and yet didn't have this information.
M: Yeah. Yeah. I never thought about it that way.
L: Yeah.
M: That's great.
L: Then there's this new period of having new hearing in a way, probably different than the average person's hearing because you’re using hearing aids.
M: Probably.
L: Right? It's probably, I don't know. I'm saying probably and you’re saying probably because I don't know. We can't compare, right?
M: Yeah.
L: Um, I think I'm remembering that it was sometime last year cause that that was, you had been using hearing aids for a few years.
M: So that was 2010.
L: Right. And then you had a new, a new kind of part of your journey. Right?
M: And then at some point last year, so my hearing loss pattern, I had gotten it tested every year or two and it was relatively stable. Like there were some fluctuation but it could have been just random fluctuation until last year. There were I think three periods when I felt a significant drop in my hearing and I don't, I don't know, if there were actual drops every time or what, but one was just like, I woke up one day and the ringing in my ears, I always have ringing in my ears, but it was really loud and I couldn't hear the car beep. Couldn't hear car beeps like that. Boop boop. When you like beep your car.
L: Yeah.
M: That scared the crap out of me. Like I was just like, I thought it wasn't working and it's like I could hear the like the like lock unlock and they kept testing it and then it sort of came back a little bit but then not really and that was with my hearing aids and then the big one was I went out dancing on new year's eve and I wore earplugs where like the heaviest earplugs that I could find and kept them in the whole time. The point where I like felt like I couldn't really even hear the music. I was like it's probably fine. People I was with didn't have any hearing protection and then the next morning I couldn't hear anything. Like I couldn't, I could hear like really low frequency things but it was just all muffled above that. And I got my hearing tested sometime in there and they showed significant drops and what was really upsetting to me about that was my pattern of hearing loss before that was it was like, high, middle frequency. So like profound hearing loss and high frequencies and then severe hearing loss and like less high frequency is in the middle of frequencies is moderate to severe. But that's the speech range. Um, so like being able to understand speech. And so I remember the audiologists like in 2010 being like, well the good thing is like you still have your speech range and I'm a psychologist and a therapist. So it's like, well I listen all day and that's really important.
L: Yeah.
M: Um, and so this was a loss of like a big drop in the loss in my speech range and my left ear and a more moderate drop in my right ear and it's remained lower since then.
L: That was a big shift.
M: Yeah, that was a big shift. And that's when I started listening to your podcast, which has very good sound quality by the way.
L: That’s good.
M: Like I can actually hear your podcast.
L: Well, and that's one of the things that podcasts are very much an audio thing to listen to and, and why we started creating the transcripts because we don't just want people who can hear the podcast so you can be able to participate. Of course it's a different experience reading it.
M: Yeah. Thank you for doing that too.
L: Yeah.
M: Yeah. Yeah. You also have very good sound quality and your voice is, I think, a better range for me than some voices so that's convenient.
L: That's good.
M: It’s a weird thing.
L: Yeah. And, and it is in some ways kind of like random, like we don't know which voices are gonna resonate and be able to hear. Um, well I say we, but you don't know. Um, and I'm glad that it worked out. I'm glad that it conveniently was something that could be available to you and it's really heartening to know that all the conversations that have been had on these episodes could be useful to you at a time when you're, like you said you're scared.
M: Yeah. Cause I really like seeing the world in terms of what our challenges can teach us. And I wasn't in that spot. Like…
L: Yeah.
M: I was in a spot of just like panic and what am I going to do and how many going to get through my work day tomorrow and then really getting like up in my head about that. Like is this real hearing loss or is this because I'm freaking out or what's going on?
L: Right.
M: What can be any worse.
L: Yeah, very basic needs.
M: Yeah.
L: And actually that's the, the conversation about how we can kind of look at things as a gift or make it into something that's useful to us is one of my favorite conversations. And at the same time I think conversations about that can sometimes not bring in what you just mentioned, which is yet, and I wasn't in that place in that moment.
M: Yeah.
L: So it's like how do we, and this is a bit of a brainstorm together, but like how do we integrate both of those? Like how do we allow space for it to be one person who both isn't in the mood to make it into her gift and then sometimes is in that space. You know, it's, it's kind of complex.
M: Yeah. I've been really nerding out on something called polyvagal theory lately. Have you heard of that?
L: I have heard of it. I don't know a lot about it though and I have no nerded out on it, so…
M: Haven’t nerded out on it.
L: Between the two of us, I think you're probably more of the expert.
M: Okay. So we have these, we're in a different part of our nervous system when we're in stress or when we're in social engagement. Um, so there's this branch of the nerve that runs from our gut to our brain called the vagas nerve. The ventral branch of it is engaged when we are in a place of I belong in the world and it's okay to relax and there are all these physiological changes that happen when we're there. And so I was like, I had lost access to that part of my nervous system for awhile after may hearing dropped. Um, and I think what your podcast did for me is we can like borrow other people's ventral vagas for awhile.
L: I did not know that.
M: Well that wasn't like the most scientifically thing I've ever said.
L: There’s some resonance, not the most scientific thing you've ever said, but there's some resonance there just in hearing you say we can be impacted essentially by somebody else’s...
M: Yeah. Yeah. And so even, you know, hearing other people who are probably in more of a state of their social engagement system, talking about ways that they have found meaning and growth through their struggles like me witnessing that I think automatically helps me get there a little bit even when I was like, I'm not there yet.
L: Yeah.
M: Yeah.
L: Absolutely. And I think just when I think about how like where I got my kind of strength from when I wasn't feeling up for it is I will go find media that resonates for me. So I read a book or I'll watch a YouTube talk or I'll listen to a podcast that is somebody speaking and being in a way that resonates for me on a spirit level. Even if my humanness isn't, you know, in that space. Like, if my body and my nervous system aren't feeling super safe or whatever, it's kind of like how when we listen to a guided meditation or spa music, it just kind of starts to help regulate the system. And you don't have to play, you don't have to play the instrument in order for the music to impact you. You know?
M: I like that.
L: What you're saying is I didn't have to come up with the positive thoughts myself.
M: Yeah. And I couldn't, like I thought, part of me that would be able to think creatively and be curious about my hearing loss was I think it was offline.
L: Yeah.
M: And so you're podcast has helped me to get that back online.
L: That's so cool.
M: Yeah.
L: And I always like to say, cause I've heard people say before that, you know, people will say this about teachers or about whatever podcast or book that inspires them, that it was this thing that helped them get through it, which is true. And I don't want to invalidate that. And I want to complicated a bit to say that your inner, whatever, whatever you want to call it, your inner compass is calibrated in such a way that this would speak to you.
M: I think so. Yeah. I think we know, there's a part of us that knows exactly what we need and gravitates towards it. Even if we cognitively have no idea what we need.
L: That's a really...I want to take a moment for that, because that...I feel like that could just be a whole conversation in and of itself. When did you first start to realize that in your life?
M: Oh wow. I don't know the answer to that question.
L: Maybe a better way to say it would be where have you noticed that in your life?
M: Gravitating towards what's needed even when I don't know cognitively what that is. I want to say I've been only really clear about that and 100% trusting of it in like the last couple of years and it's probably been getting clearer and clearer and over time. In the last couple of years, I always want to, this kind of academic track is perfectionism runs in my family and I'm really good at following directions. And really that's my comfort zone is somebody like tell me what to do and then I'll just do it and you'll be pleased with the results and I don't have to worry about it.
L: Yes.
M: Um.
L: I think you're not alone in that, like not the only one. People who are listening to this and probably like, yes, go on. I can, I'm with you.
M: Yeah, just, just do it.
L: Right.
M: And I just wasn't on a track with that, that I didn't even stop to question until very recently and started school. Um, and she just tried to get good grades and I got more school, more school and more school. And then I noticed that my nervous system, I didn't have language for it at the time but I was just like in a state of fight or flight, like a lot in grad school and like dissertation and exams and comps and publications and blah, blah, blah. But I was really uncomfortable all the time. Oh, I think it was like three years ago actually. I made a note to myself, it's on my computer and in like the little notes application and it said that I don't know where this came from. I don't totally remember writing it or if I may have stolen it from something accidentally. So I'm not taking credit. But it said the unlived life begins once everything has been lost. And then I started sometime around then going like, I'm, I'm, I don't like to, I was research doing a research job and I was like, I don't like research. I don't know how I ended up doing this, except it was like the track I got on that people were like, this is the best thing you can do. I don't think I like it. I ended up leaving my job and start, went into private practice and started having all this space to examine what I really wanted to do and then it became really clear. Like I can just feel the difference shifts and if I'm moving towards something that resonates with me on a nervous system level.
L: Yeah.
M: It's just like, yeah, and if I'm moving away from it, it's like, ahhh,
L: Yeah, yeah. You can feel it. Like, I mean, the way that I talk about it is I think different people feel it differently, but that what you talk about the resonance.
M: Yeah.
L: Oftentimes if I'm really paying attention, I can feel different sensations in my body.
M: Yeah.
L: That are telling me move towards this. This feels like ease. This feels like flow.
M: Exactly.
L: This feels like excitement or alignness and then sometimes I'll get feelings in my body that are the opposite of that, like contraction. My chest feels tight. Right. You know?
M: Exactly.
L: And I'm curious how you feel, like what are your kind of indicators of flow or ease or what's the word that you used earlier?
M: Um.
L: Just resonance. I think.
M: Resonance indicators. I think I get like definitely like a softening in my belly and my chest and just like this openness. Um, and sometimes I don't, I'm getting better at it, but sometimes I don't notice when there's a little bit of tension and I'm like, Oh.
L: It’s easy to not notice.
M: Yeah. I think that's pretty common.
L: Yeah. Or at least I'm saying it's easy for me. Um, because I don't think we've really been taught to pay attention to our bodies and the sensations and how they're related to emotion.
M: Nope. Yeah. So I think that the feeling of ease I think, and then there are certain states that can be accessed like awe, and curiosity, like a feeling of like a big love feeling like I just can't, I can't access them when I'm moving away, when I'm moving towards something that's off track.
L: Yeah.
M: I'm sure there's a lot more nuance to it, but I'll have to, yeah.
L: Absolutely. Probably for the rest of our lives. I think that's one of the best things to study in ourselves. Is like paying attention to that inner navigation system.
M: Yeah.
L: It's constantly talking to us. And we've talked about on the podcast before, like our bodies are talking to us in so many ways.
M: Yeah.
L: And emotions are often connected to physical sensations that we ignore.
M: Yeah.
L: Often. Not always.
M: Totally.
L: But when you talk about your research job and then how it didn't work for you, and then it led into you had this space, more spacious career where you had a practice and then there was time for reflection and introspection and writing down this thought in your notes app that resonated for you. And so what's happened since then?
M: What's happened since then in terms of what directions?
L: Yeah, like what's unfolded for you. And I know it's a really broad question, but I'm kind of curious about this kind of shift in your life.
M: One thing that comes up is that for the last year or so, I've been single for like the first time in my whole life, which is weird timing because I'm, I just turned 40.
L: Oh, happy birthday.
M: Oh well not just but thank you.
L: Very belated birthday.
*Laughter*
M: So I think part of it is just realizing as I've been listening to my body, like, I don't know, like I don't, I don't know if the relationships that I was drawn towards previously were like, they weren't coming from a place of resonance coming more from a place of, it seems like this would be somebody who would make sense based on blah, blah blah.
L: Like logic.
M: Logic. Yeah. And or you know, somebody would come along and be like, I think we should do the, I think we should be together and I think we should do whatever. And I'm like, yeah, sure, we can try that. Um, and so really taking a step back and going like, it's more important to me to, to do the like the inner resonance and like learn how my navigation system works for a minute, for awhile. And then I dunno, maybe that goes, take that into a relationship at some point.
L: Yeah.
M: So that's a huge shift.
L: So you've had personal space, like psychic space.
M: Yeah.
L: To be with yourself.
M: Yeah.
L: And not have the influence of a strong other in your life who's telling you like, let's try this, let's do this.
M: Yeah.
L: So you've had time with you.
M: I've had time with me and it actually absolutely enjoy time with me a lot. No. And if I don't have enough time with me, I'm like, Oh no. Like something has to go here cause I need more.
L: That's really good point.
M: I need more of that.
L: Yeah. And when we, you know, we know each other. Actually, I don't think we've even talked on this in this conversation about how we got to know each other, which is, and by the way, this is a side note, but if you don't want this to be in here, we don't have it. Um, you joined the mastermind that I, at the end of season two, I mentioned that I was gonna have this mastermind called the shine your light mastermind for people wanting to shine their light in the world, whatever that means for them. And you kind of joined and said, I don't, I'm not sure exactly what that means for me yet, but I want to do this and I want to be a part of it. And I remember reading what you wrote when you're saying this is why I want to be a part of it. And getting chills and feeling like I want to be in her mastermind. Like I felt like there was just some resonance there around the type of work that we're both wanting to explore and um, in community. And so I got to know you and part of your process and actually now I remember I was with you essentially during that time when you turn 40 and that it was…
M: Oh yeah.
L: You're special kind of. You set up a special birthday celebration that was about you like being with yourself.
M: Yeah.
L: And um, I just remember those insight moments and I think one of them we had, we were talking about what if our bodies and our senses, like what if our senses aren't the most important thing? And something happened there. I don't remember exactly how it unfolded, but that was the kind of aha kind of moment. I think we're all kind of talking.
M: Yeah.
L: Wait, what if that, what if our senses aren't?
M: Yeah, that was, I think that was, that was the conversation also was with, um, another participant who you'll be interviewing later in this season.
L: Yes. Sure. Or sometimes, I actually don't even know. Maybe it'll be before or after. You can actually say her name if you want, then we'll be able to connect who's who.
M: That was, that was a conversation with Sherry and so, and I feel like she, she was a big part of that conversation. I'm trying to put myself back in that moment. We were talking about how in our culture, Western dominant culture kind of thing that um, we have this idea that when we're stressed out that we're supposed to like really get in our senses and taking the sights and the sounds and um, be in the present moment with, with our, and I think we were having a conversation about like maybe that's not the only thing. Um, and maybe sometimes like for me, when my sense, one of my senses and I'd had problems with my vision in the past as well, but when my hearing started getting less strong, it made it much easier for me to listen to myself and for it made it harder. It forced me to listen to myself, that forced me to stop listening to other people and listening to outside world saying, you should do this or you should do this or you should do this. And so for me, when I started losing one of my senses are increased. The losing of my, one of my senses, that's when the magic started happening in a way, even though I hated it.
L: Yeah. Right.
M: Yeah.
L: Both.
M: Both. So yeah. But it be good to also maybe chat with Sherry about, about that question cause she was a big part of it.
L: Yeah.
M: Yeah.
L: The way that you describe your hearing loss impacting truly quote unquote listening to yourself. I want to call that a narrative or a story because it's how you're making sense of it for yourself in the way of kind of looking at it through the lens of a gift and it's so poetic, you know, it's, it's almost just simple and it, it has such a huge impact.
M: Yeah.
L: Like literally you couldn't listen to other people in a way they wanted you to.
M: Literally couldn’t.
L: To write and to have that turning inward that you did was part of your personality interacting with the situation.
M: Yeah. Yeah. And I noticed since then that when I have these periods of, I have like I have like four different tones and my ears, I have one that's there all the time. That was the high pitched one. And then another one that's newer that's there all the time. It's like a middle pitch and then have like a couple other ones that when things are really intense they like the whole band starts playing and it's very loud. But when that happens now, like my immediate Go-To is like how have I not been listening to myself and what do I need to listen to and and just slow down.
L: So it's almost like you take that and say here's how to use a moment like this is to start inviting in reflection.
M: Yeah.
L: That's so cool.
M: And it goes a lot better. And then it's also, it's like life gets to be an adventure and we don't have to rely on things being a certain way or bodies being a certain way in order to enjoy life.
L: Yeah. And I love that when you have these moments where I'm going to call it like an increase in the symptom of, of hearing loss.
M: Yeah, you can call it that.
L: Yeah. You like pause and you've chosen a bit of an anchor question or reflection point and said, I'm going to use this as my new go to in these moments. That's pretty cool.
M: Yeah. Like the question of not why is this happening to me, but why is it happening for me? And then letting it be like an opportunity to find a wisdom or something like that.
L: Yeah.
M: Yeah.
L: Well the, even that question in and of itself is like a whole conversation. How is this happening for me instead of to me?
M: Yeah.
L: And again going back to what we said at the very beginning, this is not the kind of question that I would ask someone else. This is the question I asked myself cause when I go into somebody else's business and they're having a hard moment, it's like the least empathic thing to do is be like, well but how is this good for you? Come on. That's actually really a painful way to interact.
M: Yes.
L: And yet the flip side of it is it can be really empowering for me when I choose that, not because somebody told me to or because I feel guilty or like it's the righteous thing, but deeply and purely because I just want to enrich myself. That's so empowering.
M: It's not a look on the bright side. It's not a like, Oh look on the bright side, it's an opportunity for, well I have heard it called that.
L: Yeah.
M: Another effing growth opportunity. But it's like, Oh, what did she say? I was talking to Sherry about the growth opportunity thing and she, she called it, is it okay to swear?
L: Swear away.
M: Okay.
L: Here we go. Drum roll. There's going to be a certain no, I'm just kidding.
M: Yeah. What is she the, I think she is call it like, it feels like, like a big shit show. Like, like the radio city music hall of shit shows.
*Laughter*
M: I'm like, when you're in that place and being like…
*Laughter*
L: That is the level of crowd and stage for the shit show.
M: For the ship show. I don't know. I want to make sure to credit her for that. It's good.
L: It’s so cute.
M: That when you're in there, it's not like a, yeah, cause if somebody came up to you and was like, well what's the good thing about this? You want to punch them in the face.
L: Or at least double middle fingers.
M: Yeah. At least at the very least.
L: Make little air circles like yeah, yeah, yeah.
M: Yeah. Something like that. Something along that spectrum.
L: Right. Like get outta here. You don't want to answer that question because in a way it's, I think sometimes when people say that maybe it's because they had an experience that was positively transformed or they're trying to help us or maybe cause they're just, they have discomfort with our discomfort. Right. But at the same time and so even though it can come from a good place, it can feel a little, um, mis-attuned, you know?
M: Yeah.
L: Wait, I don't think you're understanding where I'm at and maybe I don't need to transform in this moment or maybe part of the transformation is allowing myself to feel right now.
M: Part of the transformation has to be allowing the giant shit show feelings.
L: Yeah. I like that. I want that to be one of your quotes from the episode. Part of the transformation has to be allowing the giant shit show feelings. It's so true and uncomfortable.
M: Cause yeah, you can't, if you skip over that, that's when weird things happen. I think. The stealing it are still there and you're going about your normal day but with the vibe of something weird is happening under the surface.
L: How would you describe the weirdness? Is it like a, like a foreign kind of foreign object is in the mix or.
M: Yeah, it's like, I mean we can sense that. Um, like isn't going back to the polyvagal theory thing again, like Steve Porges who um, he created polyvagal theory. He came up with the concept of neuroception. Like our nervous systems are communicating with each other even when we're not saying the words about it. And so…
L: Like, two different people or more nervous systems are communicating with each other from people just being in proximity.
M: Yeah.
L: What about over video?
M: I would say yes. And the effect would be muted.
L: Yeah.
M: A little bit.
L: Sorry, I took us off on a tangent.
M: No, that's fine.
L: I'm fascinated by this though. So our nervous systems are in communication even without words.
M: Yes, definitely. So if somebody is like, let's say if I, during that period of time when I had the drop in my hearing and I was feeling like terrified and wrecked and scared and all this stuff and I didn't listen to your show and cry for half the time I was listening to the show and things like that and I was just carrying that around and interacting with and interacting with someone and with no release, they would feel, um, they might leave that interaction feeling like something's off, but I can't really put my finger on it. I probably wouldn't, not enough to register and not enough for it to be like a huge deal, but like it's just.
L: They might have picked up on something in your energy being stuck or not had a chance to express itself.
M: Yeah. Or I'm having a really, if I was having a really hard time and I was with somebody who I was really comfortable with, I might not even recognize it and I might just be like a jerk to them or something like just like why would you ask me that.
L: Yeah. In the, in a direction that's sort of like at them versus the internal processes happening.
M: Yeah.
L: Well it's true. I mean, and I think often like we talk about us therapists quote unquote metabolizing our emotions, meaning allowing them to move through us, integrating them into the whole of who we are versus just being the emotion or the not having of the emotion.
M: Yeah.
L: Like not one or the other, but just okay this is part of life right now and we're kind of digesting them. We're integrating them.
M: And integration is a good word for it.
L: Yeah.
M: Like as part of the whole, yeah.
L: Yeah. So how do you hold your, like in a given moment, how do you hold the desire to see something as a gift or the desire to feel the benefits of looking at it through a certain lens with that need to also feel the hard feelings.
M: I think that sometimes part of it is recognizing in this moment I can't sometimes, like I can't do it right now.
L: Yeah.
M: And let it, like I have this constant running voice in my head that I have developed like over the years. That's not, um, I do have this self critical voice. It's gotten less. I know I have this voice that comes online. This is embarrassing to say out loud. I don't think I've ever told anyone this, but as soon as something really hard happens, like immediately I have this voice that comes online and goes, Oh sweetie.
L: Oh, I love that.
M: I never told anyone that before.
L: I love that though. We need that, I feel like my nervous system hearing that would immediately feel at least accepted or at least okay.
M: Yeah.
L: You know, for all the messiness.
M: Yeah. At least okay for all the messiness.
L: Yeah.
M: It's like, and then it's like a, and this was through some of my training as a therapist, but then like I have validating thoughts that will happen. Like it makes sense you're feeling this way because you know, it's really hard to have, not be able to hear and it's really scary and that makes a lot of sense.
L: Yeah.
M: What do you need?
L: Right.
M: And I asked myself, what do you need right now?
L: Yeah.
M: Or my nervous system sometimes. Like ask my nervous system, what do you need right now?
L: That's beautiful. And then what is your nervous system usually say? Or is it different things?
M: It’s always different. And that's been part of like the nuance of that. My hearing loss has pushed me towards is listening to the moment to moment. Because if I'm like, well, last time I had, I don't know why this example came up last time I had a Popsicle and I felt better when I had the Popsicle last time. So from now on.
L: That's the Popsicle solution.
M: Every time I am worried about my hearing, I'm gonna have a Popsicle.
L: Right.
*Laughter*
M: It's probably not gonna work.
L: Probably not gonna work out the same way.
M: Yeah.
L: Not every time.
M: Yeah. Probably at least one more time though. I would imagine. Popsicles are really good.
L: I know. Especially if you got the right flavor, your, it's, it's a, you're in the right zone. Um, I think that that kind of inner self-talk, I first of all, thank you for trusting me with your sharing that inner kind of conversation because it literally is private.
M: Yes.
L: What happens internally, don't nobody else knows about it.
M: Nobody knows.
L: Except for now the entire world knows. It's great and, and I think it's really helpful for so many of us. And uh, I'll reveal my little thing that is my go to phrase when I'm looking to be, um, empathic with myself. Cause I do think we need to share empathy with ourselves to say, Oh okay, this is hard for you. I see you. I recognize your pain, is the phrase of course. So it's like, Oh, of course I'm feeling anxious, you know, or of course I'm feeling mad at that cat. It just scratched me or you know, whatever. That it makes sense. I make sense. It's okay to be me. It doesn't mean, I think sometimes we can become afraid that if we empathize with why we feel crummy, that that means it'll stick around forever. Cause we're just enabling it by being empathic. But that's not how it works. It's actually that permission to feel it that allows us to continue forward and not get stuck in it, you know?
M: Yeah. Yeah. And that of course is. Yeah. Acknowledging that everything that's happening is happening maybe for good reason.
L: Yeah. It's certainly not because I'm bad, you know, like this isn't a punishment. I'm not feeling a crummy way because I'm bad or I have to shame myself or this external circumstance didn't happen because I'm bad, but that I get to live with it and see what arises. Kind of like what you're saying, where's the gift? There's some gifts in here.
M: Yeah. And it's all, it's also the opposite of that, like problem solving mode that people get into like something difficult is happening. Or often people response will be like, well did you try this or try that. And then that's kind of although intended to be helpful. It's giving a message of not of course, like it's not supposed to be this way.
L: Yeah.
M: That's a problem to be fixed.
L: Yeah. And that's sort of more in the, I think sometimes like, cause I'll be, I'll be honest, sometimes I'm in problem solving mode with other people or with myself. And I think when I'm doing that I'm looking for a quick fix and there are times when that's useful. Like if I'm in a like a moment where I need to quickly find something or I need to do something quickly, but often having to do something quickly skips over the whole emotional process and it kind of sends a message that, Oh, there isn't time for you thinking about the internal sweetie that you talk to. It's like there's no time for the sweetie. Part of me, you know, like I'm not, can be really hard whether we're doing it to ourselves or somebody else's doing it. So being able to say, actually I'd like to linger here for a moment is really powerful.
M: Like let's, let's turn attention to this like it matters.
L: Yeah. I like that. I want that to be the title of something. We'll figure it out.
M: Yeah.
L: What does it mean to you to live a fulfilling life? And is that, is that definition impacted by your story with your body?
M: I think it’s a lot of what we've been talking about, like for me, the, that getting to that moment. So you have these moments of like everything is in a comfort zone and easy and fine. Some of those. And then you get to a moment where there's like this growth edge, the big shit show or a little shit, sometimes it's just a little shit show, a little tiny shit show. And then that's like, that's the challenge. And that's like part of the, I think you've called that an adventure. The adventure.
L: Yeah.
M: So living a fulfilling life for me is about like that a combination of like breathing, like a combination of comfort and growth or like, like, the like inhale and exhale for some reason like comfort and growth. And my relationship with my body impacts that because my body likes to sometimes do things that feel really good and sometimes like they give me lots of shit show opportunities. So it's helpful.
L: Yeah. And you're kind of there for it.
M: Yeah.
L: Like you're showing up for it. That's awesome.
M: Yeah.
L: You’re living.
M: Yeah.
L: Do you have any funny stories from this area of your life?
M: This is a little one. There's one that came up right now. I'm sure that there are some other ones that are funnier, but this is, here's one I was making dinner, um, um, was part of this workshop and one of the people who attended the workshop was a person who created a, psychologist who created one of the types of therapy that I do. And um, but she's somebody who I've looked up to and you know, a little bit like, even though she wouldn't like that, I'm like a little bit like star struck by.
L: Yeah.
M: And we were making dinner together, the Senate of being the situation we were in and she asked me, um, do you want some tea? And I responded, you got me a tree??
*Laughter*
L: You’re like, I've been waiting my whole life in this moment. Now you've got me a tree. That's, that's a good one.
*Laughter*
M: Yeah.
L: How did that play out?
M: I mean, she's, she's a really gifted therapist and warm human. She came over to me. She like, put her hand on my back. And she was like, I just love the things that your ears think that people say.
L: How did you feel about that response?
M: Good.
L: That's really cool. Cause I mean I was imagining you had a positive association with it, but I don't want to assume, it sounds like I don't know her, but it sounds like that really came from her heart.
M: Yeah, it did.
L: Like almost, it's almost like, Ooh, we've got a little bit more entertainment through this, you know, frustration. That's also like providing comic comedic material that nobody even came up with. It showed up.
M: I'm not even trying.
L: You were attempting to hear something and you've got all this other whole other story, so yeah, I bet you probably will continue to have.
M: Oh I, yeah, every day I have one. I have little moments like that.
L: Yeah. It's good to check out. You get to check out the story and be like, is that, did you really just say what I think that you just said? What do you have now that you might not have had without hearing loss?
M: Yeah. I think that my hearing loss is like a, it's a guide like orienting me back to myself all the time because, and I think I never thought about this until right now because there are fluctuations and I don't know why there are fluctuations, but there are fluctuations and there's fluctuations and the tinnitus or the ringing that, um, it's like a wake up call to come back to myself. And if, when, during that period of time when it was consistent, like the year where there was no change, I just started ignoring it. Like I had my hearing aids. It was like I didn't pay attention to it. And so even like the progression of it is like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm supposed to come back to myself and listen.
L: Yeah. So you've got this continual reminder, come back, come back. Yeah.
M: Yeah.
L: Finish the sentence. This is not what I ordered…
M: But maybe I will have seconds.
L: Hmm. I like that. But maybe I'll take some more of this, you know, see what happens next. Thank you so much for joining me.
M: Yeah, it was great. Thank you.