Episode 49: Learning To Love My Own Heart
Guest: Sherry Espinoza
Lauren: Well, I'll just begin by saying thank you for joining me.
Sherry: Thank you for having me.
L: It's really nice to be sitting here with you.
S: Thank you.
L: And chatting and we've actually been chatting for a while this morning and now we're just recording it.
S: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
L: Can you tell me an overview of what your health journey has been?
S: In 1986 I um, developed this, uh, painful red eye in my left eye. And so, um, I thought I need to go to the doctor. I figured it was conjunctivitis and get some medicine for it. And the doctors seemed it was conjunctivitis as well. I went home with the drops and then overnight it kept getting worse and worse and more and more painful. I couldn't sleep. I was just pacing or like is this what pink eye is? Cause, you know.
L: Yeah.
S: Um, and so the next day I went back again and said, I think there might be something else wrong. And fortunately this doctor said, you know, I think you might have something called iritis, which I guess is very rare. And I was very fortunate this doctor figured that out. So he sent me, which is an emergency situation because um, you know, it takes your eyesight away. It causes blindness. And so I immediately had to go to the emergency room and they had to call in a specialist and he looked at my eye and he's like, you have something called uveitis. And um, uveitis is an inflammation of all the layers of the eye. And so I that the, at that point, that was the beginning of my journey. So since 1986, I've been going from doctor to doctor, procedure to procedure. When you are diagnosed with uveitis they always, it's associated with something else, usually very rarely idiopathic.
L: Oh, okay.
S: That's what that's called. And so then I went to like every department there is, you know, and had to be tested for every possible thing. And I ended up being diagnosed with something called ankylosing spondylitis, which is a form of arthritis of the spine. And so my story is so long but um, there's…
*Laughter*
L: Yeah cause there's winding.
S: It's very long.
L: You got a lot of different information along the way.
S: Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to, and so I was actually only 19 years old in 1986 when this, when this happened to me. And so I started having to have injections into my eye when they told me they were going to inject steroids inside of my eye, I was like, yeah, no we're not.
L: That doesn't sound very appealing.
S: That’s not going to happen.
L: Yeah.
S: But they, you know, I didn't really have a choice cause I was rapidly losing my vision in that eye. And so, um, I did, I started having injections of steroids. I had to do oral steroids and I've just been on a lot of medications over the past 30 years, but it was only in one eye, but they, they couldn't ever really get it all the way back again. So I can, I ended up being what's called legally blind in that eye. I have issues. So, and then as time went on, you know, I was also being treated for the ankylosing spondylitis. As time went on, I got it moved into my other eye the, the uveitis and again, lots of injections. Lots of medication. And then, then I started having to have surgeries on my eyes, trying to save the vision in them. And then so slowly over time, uh, they just started to diminish. Um, and then my right eye eventually got so bad that I had just, I had to have it removed last year. Um, I still have vision, I just have low vision, it's called. So, yeah.
L: Yeah.
S: But then also at the time that I was going through all of that, I got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, which, um, stinks.
L: It's not what you were hoping for.
*Laughter*
S: I want to say it was, yeah. No, no fun. And then that journey with the multiple sclerosis that I've been dealing with since then, so yeah.
L: And now we're here, two gals with multiple sclerosis.
S: Yes.
L: You've got a little bit more than I do at this point.
S: Yeah.
L: But I remember when we met feeling that mixed feeling, I always feel, which is like, I'm sorry that you have MS and Oh, me too. Me too.
S: Right.
L: You know? Yeah. So I actually, I really didn't know that whole journey. I didn't know the winding. I know there's a lot more to it.
S: Right.
L: I didn't know it started at 19.
S: Yes.
L: And that you had to get steroid injections into your eye. I mean that's a lot.
S: Uh, yeah.
L: To go through from a young age.
S: Mmhmm.
L: This most recent development for you, your new eye. I’m calling it your new eye. I don't know if that's what you call it.
S: Yeah, it's uh, it's my new eye. It’s a prosthetic eye so yeah, it's new.
L: And we were talking about, you know, you and I met through the, we met through the shine your light mastermind, which is a group that met. People who listen to the podcast, who wanted to go in depth and talk about how we want to share our journeys with the world or how we wanted them….
S: Yeah. That was so great. Yeah.
L: And that's how you and I got to know each other.
S: Yeah.
L: And that was part of what we talked about was Oh, new diagnosis. MS. New eye. This has been a big year for you.
S: Big year.
L: So what have you noticed along the way about, cause I noticed when you came in you said, I've actually started to get more comfortable with it.
S: Yes. Yeah.
L: How has that happened for you?
S: I don't know. It just takes time. You know, I lived with an eye that had turned gray. I mean it was basically not alive. My body had stopped supporting it because it was blind, and so, um, I lived for many years with that gray eye and it was real small and I was self conscious of it. And over time I slowly, I think stop making eye contact and things with people.
L: Wow.
S: And um, when I got this, once I had the eye removed and got the prosthetic installed...installed.
*Laughter*
L: Well kind of, yeah.
S: Like I got a new refrigerator or something.
L: Just had to hook it up. Yeah.
S: Oh, good. That's funny. But, um, when I first looked at it, I freaked out because it looks dead to me, because I'm looking out of it and I know it just looked like this thing hanging in my face where everybody else was freaking out. How amazing it looked. And it was like, that's amazing.
L:Yeah.
S: When every time I looked at myself as like, there's a dead eye staring back at me. Really weird.
L: Literally a foreign object. A new part of your body.
S: Yeah. Cause I'm not seeing out of it. Like my brain knows I'm not seeing out of it. So it's like, what is that? And slowly I've gotten used to it now though. It just took me awhile. Now when I look at myself, I don't see that anymore, strangely enough. I don't know how that works or how that happens, but, um.
L: Something clicked.
S: Something clicked and now I, I'm not as, and I've started looking people in the eye again.
L: I love that.
S: It's really, um…
L: I just feel excited for you.
S: Yeah. It's, it's really a challenge, you know? But…
L: Yeah, I mean, knowing you as I do.
S: Yeah.
L: It's huge. The eye contact, like I love looking into your eyes just sitting across from you and we get to see each other on video before, but it's certainly great sitting with you.
S: Yeah.
L: And how sad I feel that there was a time that you didn't, you know.
S: I did. I did.
L: Yeah.
S: And I think I added to it because, uh, because of my vision, I can't really see people's faces when they're sitting across the table from me or anything like that.
L: Wow.
S: So I can, I mean, I know they're there and I see it in general, but I can't necessarily see, um, facial cues and things like that.
L: Okay.
S: So I started getting very self conscious of that too. Just, it's a strange thing. You don't realize how much you’re relying on other people's facial cues when you're talking to them, so you're not sure. It's just an unsettling feeling. It was just me having to learn how to live without, you know, regular, normal eyesight or whatever. I don't know.
L: Yeah. Well, I mean, it just sounds like there's just so much, so many cognitive processes, both with your learning how to engage with people while not seeing their facial aspect, but then also learning how to see yourself and this new eye and make sense of it. Like there's a whole new, it's like a restructuring of how you engage with the world.
S: Yeah.
L: I can also imagine the thing about eye contact is you don't have as much privacy when you're making eye contact.
S: True.
L: You know, like sometimes we just need some more privacy.
S: Yeah, true. That's true. Yeah. I've spent, I spent a long time, um, at one point in time I got very, very ill. Obviously I've been ill for a long time, but I mean ill enough because I wasn't listening to myself and just kept pushing through and pushing through and denying and deny, deny, deny, deny. I ended up pushing myself to the point where I just, I could no longer function. I was in so much pain. And um, so then I spent a couple of years basically bedridden. And so that even took me even farther out of being around people, you know, looking at people, socializing with people. So coming back out into the world now is, is, um, it's exciting, but it's also terrifying.
L: Well, and that's the, the thing that I found on just on a personal level, as I got to know you through the, as we met as a group, was so tender, like, I dunno if you remember this when you first wrote to me talking about why you wanted to join the mastermind and basically said something along the lines of, I feel a little uncomfortable with this, so I'm going to do it.
S: Yeah.
L: And I was so, I got so excited when you said that because a big part of it was, it wasn't just the topic of what we were discussing, it was the fact that you wanted to be engaged with a group of people who are going through this stuff too.
S: Yes, I did.
L: And that was brave.
S: It was, I have to admit. I wanted to run, I kept wanting to cancel and I kept wanting to say, no, I'm not doing this. Because it was really scary for me because I had been removed from the world for such a long time. But that was the perfect reintroduction for me...that, that class, because it wasn't like right in my face, you know, because we're all in our own environment and it was very gentle and it's like you don't have to do anything. You don't, you know, if I didn't want to talk I didn't have to talk.
L: Yeah.
S: I could just listen. And it really, um, that was the beginning. That class was the beginning of me starting to step out and make eye contact again. You know, these people.
L: it's so cool to know that. And I feel so grateful that you did it cause I got a lot out of just having you there.
S: Yeah.
L: I mean I think every person would share and then I'd have a moment of like, Oh, that was really important for me to hear, I'm sure for other people to hear. And then I kept hearing these connections between you of people saying me too. Yep. I get that. Or maybe I don't get that part, but I can see where you're coming from.
S: Yeah.
L: And I guess the thing that's that I am trying to figure out how to put into words is I think that we needed your newness, like we needed you to be exactly where you're at and to share the way that you did to help us connect our hearts more. And I don't want to speak for everybody else, but I think that was part of, for me, I could relate so much to this. It's like the bambi's legs when Bambi starts to walk.
S: That's exactly what it was.
L: You were doing. You're creating a new phase of your life. It was a reentry into connection. Yes. And it was just so exciting to see you be brave each time you came back.
S: Thank you.
L: Even though there's a lot of reasons, there are a lot of reasons not to come back, you know?
S: Yes. The whole, I don't know it, it's, it's one of those things that, I mean I could have just stayed in my little cocoon, but I had to, something made me break out and, and, and push myself out. It was just one of the, it was like a, it had to be done. I didn't really have a choice in the matter.
L: It just was a natural process.
S: Yeah. It feels really like a spiritual thing for me.
L: Yeah.
S: It was, this whole thing has been a very, it definitely a spiritual journey for this kid. Um, because I really think, um, I ended up realizing that I had been been searching and searching for some type of, an understanding of all of this happening to me. Why, why am I in so much pain? Why, what is the reason for all of this? And, and I, and I ended up realizing, thinking just like this is not a journey of me trying to understand everything. This was what ended up being a journey of faith for me is really what it ended up being because that's what happened in this whole whole mess that I ended up in. You know, being so ill, I couldn't even move because I hadn't listened to myself and I pushed myself past the point of no return. But, um, it really made me go within myself and find that space that I had ignored with all the distractions of the world and trying to avoid pain. You know what I mean?
L: Yes.
S: And so in order to, when you do do that and have to go all the way in there, within yourself, you've realized, well, faith is all there is. It's love. It's, it's just love. It's truly underneath it all is a really powerful, powerful love that, um, I now have. And so when these things are happening to me, it's kind of like the faith kicks in or something. It feels guided to me now. Like this is, well, this is what I'm doing now. Kind of a thing that's like, I might not want to, but I either...
L: Here we are.
S: Kick and scream or, you know what I mean?
L: Yes. It's like I'm, you're going to the dentist or something and you're kicking and screaming, going to the dentist or you can just peacefully go to the dentist because you're going there whether you want to or not yet. And so it's kind of, that's kind of a feeling that I've had. It's, it's really more about faith for me now.
L: I really resonate with the idea of both searching for the answers, like why did this happen? There's still that part of me that's like really like what is this to be your reason? You know, like as a life is a movie and there's a plot and you know, a director of that writer and all of that that just decided it'd be good for the plot and it's like, but that's not how it is. And I think what has, what you just described is such a wonderful way to explain that shift. It's a shift.
S: It's a shift.
L: From searching for the answers to almost like finding all the answers that you actually need that you didn't realize that were about you and your relationship with yourself.
S: A hundred percent.
L: Spirit.
S: Oh, that's just it. It was, it's, it's, I've decided it's me. I have decided that that's what my chronic illness journey, if that's what you want to call it, has really truly been about learning to love my own heart. Love me no matter what my body is doing, even if it's in immense pain. You know, there was a point, I remember I literally had to give myself permission to be in pain because it was always this thing where, well, I shouldn't be in pain. I'm not supposed to be in pain. You know, I'm, I'm spiritual too. You know, it's like, well I meditate and I do all these things. Why am I still in pain? You know, it's like this. And so I remembered kind of doing that, just giving myself permission to be in pain and kind of just telling pain. Hey, all right, we're just, we're doing this together now you're get, we're just going to be buddies and I'm not gonna fight you anymore.
L: Yeah.
S: I think it was, it just given up that fight and, and really when that happened, giving up the fight is, was a big, a big part of me sitting here right now.
L: That's so huge. And I can see it's moving something.
S: I know my, I try not to get tears coming up, but...
L: They're welcome here.
S: Cause I fought.
L: Yes.
S: Like really flipping hard for a long, long time.
L: It's almost like you're seeing how much energy went into that. There's a little bit of like, I can sense your awareness of all the energy that I went that you, that went into your fight.
S: And then it was like, well darn it all I do is stop fighting. And look, I learned a, I truly learned what it is to love my own heart because I never, I never knew that.
L: And that's an experience you can't pretend into. You can't, you can't know. And actually that's an experience you can't really order. Like, you know, you cannot force. It’s something that happens as a result of, in your case, that inviting in that welcoming, giving permission to all that's happening.
S: Right.
L: And, and I think it's so important too that we acknowledged that it was a natural process for you that took depth, several phases of the journey because it's not the kind of thing that we can just, you know, say to each other, we'll just surrender. Oh yeah. Oh, just, you know, just...
S: Oh my gosh, no.
L: Nobody can tell you to do that. But you know, no one can be ready to do that, but you know, for you, you know, nobody can do it for you. And that's part of honoring the process and respecting the process too. You know, the honoring.
S: When you talk about loving your own heart, it's kind of like you think, well, okay, well what does that entail? Loving your own heart. That entails loving the anger in your heart. That entails loving the sadness in your art. That entails loving the frustration, the fear, the, you know, it's not like, Oh, you know, candy and rainbows, you know what I mean? It's like, okay, I'm flipping angry right now. I mean, I am so angry that I feel like I'm going to explode. And there was a time when I'd be like, Oh no, no, no, no, no anger. And that's not allowed. And you know, through this process, for me it was like learning, Oh, I can feel, you know, loving my own heart is feeling my feelings. And that was something that I never did, was feeling my feelings and allowing them to be a part of me rather than pushing them away and saying, you know, get away from me. It's like once you welcome him in and allow, you know, this has been a lot of psychotherapy too. Let me tell you, once you, you know, once I started realizing there, they're not going to kill me. Um, I dunno. Then you start, I take you up, become friends with your feelings and it's, it's just, you know, it's, I'm 52 years old. It took me like 40 or 50 years to figure out how to feel feelings.
L: Hey, I have to tell you, that's incredible that you can feel them. And the reason I'm saying that is because what you just mentioned about I had to learn that my feelings weren't going to kill me.
S: Yeah.
L: It makes so much sense. Cause there's something, I really believe there's something in us and it's also the amygdala just as to can feel like fight or flight.
S: Yes.
L: About certain emotions. Oftentimes. Like if we're raised in an environment where certain feelings are allowed and welcomed and even celebrated, but some feelings are not allowed, then we start to internalize that and see it as like danger. If we feel them.
S: Yes.
L: That it can be that scary to feel certain feelings as life or death.
S: Yes.
L: So you learned that and I imagine it was probably a slow process because you wouldn't, I don't over encourage people to a Cannonball and jump into the pool of feelings.
S: Oh no. It was very slow process.
L: Gently wading into a lake. Just slowly. Okay. Notice that, wow. I let it in a little further into my heart and then I breathe and then I did another thing. Or maybe I let some more and but to learn really eventually that you could even get to the bottom of that lake on your swim.
S: Yeah.
L: And that you could still come back to the top is a big deal.
S: It's a huge deal because that's what I, when I did start my psychotherapy, which I did intense psychotherapy for three years, that was my, so that it will drown me. I had that, that feeling was if I allow myself to feel the anger, the sadness, you know, just that grief of there's so much loss, involved with chronic illness and you just keep seeing, like you're just barreling through, you know, you're just barreling through barreling through. And I did, I said, I, I, there's this feeling like if I allow myself to go to that place of sadness, it will swallow me whole. I will not survive that of sadness.
L: Yeah.
S: Or that depth of pain and fear and anger.
L: Yeah.
S: And so it was a very slow process of, and also with somebody who I trusted immensely, um, who guided me through all of that, uh, deep emotion and, uh, kept me safe through it, you know? So I, I'm so blessed. I just have had the most wonderful people helped me through.
L: That's so great. It's important I think, um, to feel like there's someone there helping to guide that process when you want one, you know, whether it's a friend, a therapist, um, like a person at your church, you know, whatever. Someone like as almost like a feelings mentor.
S: Yeah.
L: And just to remind you and to remind the scared part that it's okay to feel and to keep coming back.
S: Yeah.
L: Um, what you're saying about being afraid of it swallowing you like the, like you would drown in you're feeling.
S: Yes.
L: I'm remembering there's this one year of my life when I was going through the worst grief. It was before I was diagnosed. It wasn't a health thing. I had this journal where I would draw kind of like intuitive pictures of what I was feeling. And I remember drawing this and it just striking me because of what you said about feeling the drowning feeling, um, that there was this one drawing of like little multicolored pebbles at the bottom of the drawing and then this dark ocean above it and then some light at the top. And I wrote at the bottom this phrase that said in rolling with the sadness that is at the depths of the ocean, there is a sacred answer.
S: Beautiful.
L: And I think it's so connected to what, you know, I had to learn and I still have to learn it and I have to learn it. Relearn it all the time.
S: I know. Me too.
L: I had to learn that going very much to the bottom. There were also these little gems, these little jewels of my own heart, you know, my own spirit was down there too.
S: Yeah.
L: And so what I wonder is now that you can feel your feelings, what are you noticing in your life?
S: Yeah, what I am noticing is... that's an interesting question. I'm much more authentic and I'm more real. I'm allowing myself to just let it all hang out, so to speak.
L: Nice.
S: And so when people, when I'm around a lot of situations where people are just, you know, surface socializing, I struggle with that now.
L: Yes, I can relate.
S: Right? And so it's kinda like even, but if I'm with somebody that you know, like you or somebody that goes through these deep changes, you know this, our lives are changed and I'm in, it's hard for me to, I have to work on that. But I tend to go too deep for people now right away. And they'll...
L: Maybe too deep some people for some people.
S: Right. And then I'll get the change at Chubb. Dick, I've never realized how fast people can change subjects. I'm like whiplash. Whoa, okay. I guess we're not talking about that.
*Laughter*
L: I love that because in a way it is true because I think we can, when we go to that depth, like we keep using that metaphor, you know, going into deeper into the water and some people don't feel safe in the deep end or at certain moments in time don't feel safe or equipped or just not in the mood. And so what can happen is like there's such a contrast. Like I will tell you, I actually think it drains my energy to have conversations about stuff that I don't care about.
S: It does me totally.
L: It winds up becoming, um, work.
S: Exactly. You know, this is hard.
L: And you know, you and I were just chatting about spoons of energy and how many spoons you lose being in the heat or whatever. I actually think I lose spoons when I'm talking about stuff that isn't...and I'm not connecting with in my heart. I think that it depletes my energy.
S: It does. Me too. And where I can talk to somebody like you right now and my energy is not being depleted. And I think it's because I have that in this, I don't know. I sometimes call people energy vampires.
L: Well you know what the thing is, I think of it this way because I've heard that phrase too. I think about it as like chemistry vampires because different chemistry between different people can feel uplifting or draining and that same person can feel the opposite with somebody else. So it's like knowing who we want to be around.
S: Yeah.
L: Who, who will help us to recharge. Although I will say I have some friends that I laugh with so much that even though spiritually I love it, sometimes I wind up needing to rest afterwards cause I'm like, wow, that was a lot of physical energy.
S: Right. But laughter is fun though. So yes, I'm willing to give my spoons up to laughter.
L: Right. Hashtag worth it.
S: Yeah, definitely. I'll bust out dancing because something will happen. And I know like I got to dance to that song and then I'm like, Oh just use up five spoons. Okay. But it was worth it.
L: I love that. Yeah, I think that, um, it's so neat. Just the whole conversation about energy. And you mentioned earlier, I love this idea, your jewelry idea for displaying, I don't know how it would work. Didn't figured that out yet.
S: No.
L: The, can you talk a little bit about the necklace that you imagine?
S: It was just when my kids were younger and at that time I was dealing with the fatigue, you know, this chronic fatigue thing. And I had to go, go, go, go. It's not think nobody else is doing it. Put me. And as the day would go on and it'd be towards dinner time, I'd start to get, I think just a little short tempered, right. Or not even that my tone would change. It says what the, that's the feedback I would always get from my children. What's wrong mom? Like they've a knew something was wrong. What's wrong mom? I'm like, nothing's wrong. You know, cause I'm not gonna give him the list of what's wrong. It's like, no, I'm fine, but they know there's something wrong. And then I, we started talking, I said, you know, what'd be really cool if we could have something that showed my energy level so you guys wouldn't even have to you guys. You know, if I had a necklace that changed color with my level of spoons and then you guys would just know, Oh, mom's spoons or, um, Oh, she, she's low on spoons right now. I don't have to worry about it. It's not, it's not me. I haven't done anything wrong. She's just low on spoons.
L: I love that. Even if there could be a necklace that you could adjust manually or something just to indicate, or some jewelry just says like, it's like one of those batteries on the cell phone. That's a picture of how many, you know, bars, or whatever it's called, battery life is.
S: Yeah.
L: And I love that too, because I have this thing where I, you know, I'm a host of a podcast. I have this sort of hosts spirit about me a lot where I'm kind of coming across in a certain way that seems fine. And it's something that, you know, I'm kind of working on this in myself. Like how can I accurately portray what I'm feeling inside in a way that makes sense outside. And sometimes when I'm low energy, I don't realize I need to tell people like I don't even, cause to me it's obvious and I think eventually it winds up just looking like I'm in a bad mood. Sometimes I am because it’s not fun to be low energy, you know. But, um, it would be nice to have sort of like a numerical, like scale of one to 10 so that I don't have to use too many words to describe what's happening.
S: Right.
L: Cause at the time I least want to describe it is when I'm low energy.
S: Exactly.
L: Sometimes I'm like, Hm, it's bad. I just don't, I can't right now I can't do sentences.
S: Right. Because they're not forming a sentence.
L: Oh yeah.
S: It’s difficult when that fatigue is at that level.
L: Yep.
S: Because the brain's not working the way it was intended to work.
L: Yeah. It's not firing on all cylinders.
S: No. Yeah. No.
L: And then when I, you know, my shift in, when I set it up the right way, I can do kind of what you do with your feelings, which is welcome it in, welcome the fatigue and, and then the transformation is if I don't have pressure to be something that I'm not...feeling a pressure to be good at talking, I don't have pressure to be up and about and I just let myself kind of just be, it turns into something else. So it could be my nonresistance too. It could turn into, I feel relaxed or I feel easygoing because they don't have the same pressure going on internally that I should be feeling a different way.
S: That is a key.
L: Yeah. Yeah. And it's not always possible.
S: No, it's not always possible, but that's when it works the best. Like for me, it's the same thing where I used to lay down and rest, but I was angry laying down and resting.
L: Mmm.
S: You know, it's like an angry rest. It's like how, I don't know how I'm resting when I'm angry, but I did that the whole time. I'm laying there, you know, not being able to do what I want to be able to do. I'm um, no, that's the whole thing. I'm talking about giving up the fight. It's like, Oh okay, Im enough. It's okay for me to just lay here and not do anything else. And nothing bad is happening. But it is really hard though. I mean it's really hard because we, I just think as humans we want to do stuff.
L: Exactly. I totally agree. And I think there's, there's a way that, um, I think we need to give ourselves credit for our human desires. Like I was talking to someone recently who was getting out of a harder part of their health journey had been really challenging and who was saying, but I, I'm really impatient with this, and I just had to chime in and say, you have every right to be impatient because thinking about somebody who doesn't have to deal with those health challenges, they're not being labeled as something cause they don't have to even deal with that. But the impatience that we feel or the frustration that we feel can't do as much because of physical stuff is life energy wanting to play out. It's like our, our desire to live fully, our desire to live and to express ourselves and all that. You have every right to want those things.
S: Yes.
L: You know, it's like we can do that. We can be impatient. Like here's to anyone who feels impatient.
S: That's what I say.
L: You do that.
S: Im in because that's what really is where the healing truly. I'm not talking about physical healing really, but yeah, that's where the healing comes in. When you, when I stop being so hard on myself.
L: Yeah.
S: Like, I'm not super human, I'm not a super woman. I'm going to feel feelings about that. If that's a thing that sometimes my family would, I would snap. I don't know if other people, I'm sure other people feel these things, but when I get the, when I start to get a little grumpy or something or, I am, I'm on say a little trip or something and I wake up that morning and I feel just horrible and there's a bunch of things that need to happen, you know, like, um, it was my son's college graduation, you know, and the day of it I woke up and it's one of those days, really bad day. And I was having the moments of just feeling so frustrated and I was verbalizing it saying, Oh, I just, I don't know if I can do this anymore. I am so, you know, just, you know, and then you get the, Oh, just don't just be positive.
L: Right? Yes. It's almost like a warm front and a cold front.
S: Yeah. So we're creating a little tornado and it's just a, I don't know where to go with that. When, when I get that from, from somebody well just be positive, like, do you not think the only reason I am still on this planet right now because I am positive because you have to be 95% of the time.
L: Right? Oh, I love this. This is such good permission.
S: Yes.
L: Well here's the, here's how I see it is because I have that those too, the warm front and the cold front. I think we, we all, we, you know, you've probably heard me say this before, we all are very multifaceted. We have many parts. So we've got almost like different elements within us that represent different things. So the part for me that feels mad or sad, like those could, you know, be like my inner child. For example, if you look at a child who's like, I'm upset that I hurt my knee. Yeah, you don't say to them, we'll just be positive. You say like, Oh my gosh, let me get you a bandaid. Or like, come, let's have a cuddle or yeah, that was hard. Like we're going to go to your favorite movie tonight, right?
S: Yes.
L: So that's that part. And then there's the part that says just be positive. And that's probably some other element of me because I have it too, and I'll often, it comes, it takes the form is very cunning. It's like, but you're a podcast host about chronic illness. Like why are you in a bad mood about this?
S: Right?
L: It's like very sassy. Yeah. But that's kind of like another like teenage part or some other part too that's like, here's how wagging the finger, here's how you should do it. Do it my way. And that doesn't feel good because that's not authentic positivity. That's like forced stuff. But then there's the, the part of us, it's like the higher self that's like the part that can see it all. You know? And I think often when we meditate, we can kind of connect with that. But that's bigger than all of our parts. And that's who we are, regardless of whether we're angry or we're happy or sad or sleeping or energetic. Like that's our spiritual selves.
S: Yes, yes.
L: Yeah. So I mean to me it's like it doesn't really matter what element you're being in that moment. You're still yourself.
S: You’re still yourself.
L: You know. And I yeah, I can relate to that inner battle for sure.
S: Yes.
L: Yeah. The way the different parts talk to each other. I think it's the higher self that can say I love you to all of that.
S: Yes it is the higher self for sure. It's the higher self because um, that's another, that's another thing that I learned that I hadn't done ever in my life as well was that parenting myself kind of a deal that comes, you know, obviously from the therapy. But in that scenario where somebody was like, well, just be positive. Well that's, that is exactly like a parent. Exactly how you described it. And so my initial reaction and does the same reaction like a two year old would have. I want to throw a flippin tantrum right now.
L: Don't tell me what to be.
S: And so in what I've learned is that other people's, for others in the world, in my world, who have no clue what it's like to be sick and they're fortunate and you know, God bless you that you have been given us a body that never gets sick. So I can't expect them to parent me in that situation. I don't know if I'm making sense.
L: Yes.
S: So what I've learned is that instead of me going ahead and throwing the temper tantrum that I'm going to do and maybe cause all these other people to feel horrible about themselves, um, I will then just, I now turn to myself and remind myself, um, that, Oh, it's okay.
L: Yeah.
S: It's like I sit with myself, like I would sit with my children when they were little or whatever. It's the same thing. It's the integrati right and I've got the teenager in there and just like you said, I've got, I called her little Sherry. I have teenage Sherry. And I, I have learned, I'm now to take care of them and like integrate them into my world and realize that they're just as important. They're important to me and they deserve respect.
L: Yes.
S: Instead of just, eh, get away from me, you know, it's, it's no, come here. What is it? What are you mad about? Tell me all about it. I mean, thats like borderline, I don't know why, but it's, it's working for me anyway. Taking care of myself is the number one. That's my only thing I do know.
L: That's great. That's a great job to have is to be your own care giver. Caretaker, inner caretaker.
S: Yes. You know, I put, I only, I've never put myself first ever. Um, but now I am. So I shouldn't say never ever. Because now I am putting me first. And now, and I feel my feelings now too. I also say when I have needs, who knew? I have needs and I allow myself to say, Oh no, excuse me. That's not going to work for me.
L: Yes.
S: And I swear I have never done that for years and years and you know...
L: It's so great that you are doing it now.
S: I'm doing it now.
L: It's amazing. And there's the thing that happens. I noticed when we give ourselves a little love and care before we go to anybody outside to ask for a need, if we first do the inner permission, like, Hey, what you need is valid, it's worth worth, um, caring about.
S: Right.
L: Uh, even if the other person doesn't agree or doesn't want to give us that thing, I think it can feel a lot less dangerous when they say no or they don't give us what we need cause we've already got our own backs.
S: Yes. Yeah.
L: And then I noticed when I go into a situation without doing that, first I think I have to justify and validate myself and prove that this is okay what I'm doing. And I'm like, it's almost like starting an argument with somebody in my head before I even talk to them. So I have to be careful like okay, slow down. Give yourself a little love about this. Be tender towards yourself first so that you're not doing like what you just mentioned is just trying to make somebody else your parent or caregiver. Almost like first having that power within yourself, which is so helpful.
S: It's really so important. So important.
L: What does it mean to you to live a fulfilling life and is that definition impacted by your health journey?
S: I want to connect with people on an authentic, intimate level because that's where I get frustrated sometimes with how closed off people are. And I've been closed off so I understand it, but it's kinda like now where I'm at in my life. I don't want to do that anymore because it's just exhausting.
L: It is. That's a really, that's so amazing that you get to shift that now.
S: Yes. It, yes. And I just do, I'm just real now and sometimes, you know, I might be a little too direct. I don't know. I get comments. But anyway, I, I'm looking at you too. That's what I want is just to be genuine and authentic. My authentic self and not worry if I'm okay if yeah, good enough.
L: Yeah. You know, even wondering if we're good enough, takes energy and picks them out of the moment.
S: Yeah, I'm good enough. Why? Why wouldn't I be?
L: I love that.
S: Yeah.
L: Breath of fresh air. Just hearing that.
S: Yeah.
L: Do you have any funny moments from your health journey?
S: I have a lot of funny moments with my eyesight things.
L: Oh yeah, I bet.
S: Um, with, uh, this one's kind of funny. I mean, so me being the, I'm paranoid that, so I can't see across the street. All right. So there could be somebody standing at one of my neighbors could be standing in their front yard and waving at me. And I'm like horrified to think that people might think I'm not nice.
L: Yeah.
S: Like, Oh my God, I waved at my neighbor and she...
L: She didn't even take the time to wave back.
S: Yeah. She just snubbed me.
L: Yeah. So vulnerable.
S: Yeah, that is, it's hard. That is was a big thing for me. And so I just wave at everything now, everybody and everything.
L: No way.
S: Cause I can't see inside cars. I can't see, like I say, across the street. So we had gotten home, I don't know. I was, Oh no, we were getting ready to leave and my kids were with me and we walked out in the driveway and I waved at the neighbor across the street in the yard I, my, my kids are like, mom, who are you waving at and I’m like, the neighbor right there. And they're like, no, that's a blow up witch Halloween decoration.
*Laughter*
L: That's so cute.
S: I know. They were dying laughing.
L: You just go out.
S: Im obviously waving at the neighbor like that to a Halloween decoration now.
L: Well, it's a very welcomed Halloween decoration.
S: It was a big blow up. But I do silly things because of my eyesight.
L: Yeah.
S: But I, you know that you just have to have this humor about it.
L: My gosh. Yes.
S: No, but, um...
L: I bet you probably will have lots of stories to tell over time about all the different things.
S: Just things with my eyesight a lot. But I don't know how funny this is, but, um, it was one of my multiple ice surgeries and it had been the same doctor and the same team of people doing these surgeries and they were traumatic for me. And you know, just the whole thing is traumatic. And I, I had a, um, like an adverse reaction to one of the anesthetics or something that they gave me. So you to picture me. I'm, I'm always the perfect patient. I'm polite, I'm kind. I'm thank you. You guys are the best. I'm so blessed to have you in my life and all of that. Well, I had this adverse reaction to the drug so when I came out the nurses and my surgeon comes over and I went into a complete rant and rave.
L: Oh really?
S:Oh Uh huh. Ah, the, the other part of Sherry came out saying, listen, all of you, you work with sick people every day. We are in pain. We are petrified. We are scared. We are human beings.
L: Wow.
S: I specifically remember doing this. And I was like, why am I saying all these things? And I said, you treat us like we're cadavers. We're not, we're all alive. We have feelings and they're all just staring at me. What is happening right now? Because they've been through a bunch of surgeries with me and I was always so nice.
L: Yeah.
S: But it is true. They treat you, okay, sticking stickers on me and me with needles and you know, it confronted me and I don't know if that was funny but it was kind of funny from my personality.
L: Yes. It's the medically very funny cause it's not what you would have said.
S: I’ve never wanted to.
L: To say that yet it was still, everything was true. It was all true. You're advocating for a whole group of us.
S: I was.
L: You know, so thank you.
S: You're welcome.
L: I love that.
S: Yeah. So anyway.
L: I am realizing also as we were talking, so right before you came over I had a funny moment, which was I was like getting ready and get some tea together and mugs and wanted to be a good host. And I was like, Oh I should put out, okay. Literally cause I wasn't thinking very clearly. I was like, Oh she has MS too. I should put out some vitamin D like my, cause I take these little gel caps one a day. I have like a very high dosage for MS.
S: Yeah,
L: We've got, and I'm like, if she forgot her vitamin D like I've got the little things. I just thought about how funny that would be if you showed up with this little dish. Obviously I didn't do it. Maybe I should have as a joke.
S: It would have been funny.
L: Like talk about being a good host.
S: Right.
L: Okay.
S: No one else would think of that.
L: Right. It was sweet. It was like an intimate kiss. I was like, wait, I need to at least tell Sherry that I thought of that.
S: Vitamin D. Thank you.
L: So that's our, that's our know, our shared funny story.
S: That’s cute. I love that.
L: What do you have now that you might not have had without your health challenges?
S: What I have now that I would not, I don't believe that I would have realized the level of strength I have within me to handle anything at this point I think. I know there's a power within that I touched and I know that's there with me and it's just, it's just pure love there that has your back all the time, no matter what. It's there for you. And it's right there inside of me. It's right there inside of me, um, that I can go to if I need. You know?
L: That's beautiful. That's no small thing.
S: No small thing.
L: It's almost like free gift with purchase.
S: Yeah.
L: Like you can get all these different health things, but look at what you get with it.
S: I now have reached a point where I know that I'm, I am love, so to speak. I don't know. Rather than being corny. I don't know if that's corny, but it is, it's just like, there is a very pure, pure love at the core underneath all the other stuff.
L: Yeah. And it's, uh, the way that you embody it.
S: Yeah.
L: It's not like a brain knowing in the same way that it's like a soul knowing. You're just knowing it's, you're just sitting in it.
S: Yes. Yeah. That, um, which I'm, you know, maybe I, that would've happened without the chronic illness, but I don't think so.
L: In a different way. That's for sure.
S: Yeah.
L: Finish the sentence. This is not what I ordered...
S: But I'm grateful for it.
L: Yeah. And I can totally see that in your whole story. And also it's hard. So it's like both, but there's a lot of gratitude.
S: Yeah.
L: Thank you so much for being here with me today.
S: Thank you so much for having me.
L: And it was an honor.
S: It's an honor for me as well.