Episode 51: Enjoying The Dive
Guest: Mike Bajrami
Lauren: Thank you so much for joining me today, Mike.
Mike: Thanks Lauren. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
Lauren: Yeah, and I'd love to hear your, your health journey or kind of overview of what [inaudible] and like for you throughout your life, living with the body that you have.
Mike: Uh, yeah, it's been an interesting journey. Uh, there's a couple things in my experience. Um, first thing about 2000, I want to say 2003, late 2003, aye. I injured myself playing basketball, uh, lower back injury. I fell completely on my own lower lumbar hip area. And uh, from there it was just a spiral into spine disc injury, a L four L five and then L five S one a shifted pelvis and living with 'em immense debilitating pain for three years. And that did doesn't mean that at those three years that ended, it was just that I finally saw it, relief and found help.
Mike: But, um, yeah, that was [inaudible] the first part of it. And um, it really transformed my life. And then from there years later, uh, I started to develop, um, what we're now thinking is basically leaky gut, lots of food allergies and, um, skin reactions. And it's a mental game with that one. I'm sure you've heard that before, but it's, it's, um, it's an interesting ride with that as well. So, um, that, that it kind of encompasses everything right there. That's the short, sorry. Yeah.
Lauren: And it sounds like you've lived most of your life without, you know, because everything free injury didn't get, it, didn't make the cut. Right. 2003 was where your kind of intense, more intense health journey began. I have to say. I mean, I think certainly people have things that happen from childhood up til adulthood, like getting sick and stuff like that. But for you, part of your new, I mean, it was at a new identity for you once you got that injury.
Mike: Yeah, that's actually the best way to say it. Um, it completely changed who I was. Uh, it was devastating to me. I was, uh, you know, for lack of better words, I don't know, like a performance athletics guy. Okay. Hardcore in the basketball. I was, I ran, uh, seven marathons. I was running a lot of half marathons. I was training for my first triathlon when I got hurt. [inaudible] about a week into that injury, which I still didn't know what it was after it happened because I, I went to the doctor [inaudible] I just got a lot of, well, here's what it is. And the first thing I heard from this doctor was surgery. Wow. And I, I just felt so wrong about it. It did not, it didn't resonate. I didn't know why it scared me to be honest. Yeah. And, um, over the weeks the pain got worse when I was in certain positions, it got worse.
Lauren: And it just, like you were saying, the identity I who I was was all about athletics and health and [inaudible], you know, one of those people, not that I didn't have other dimensions too, who I am, but yeah. You know, we take things for granted, like being able to hop up a curb or sleep. Yeah. Yeah. In comfortable positions. I know a lot of people deal with this. So yeah, it was, um, the biggest issue I ever had beforehand was I had like a of site little thing of woodshop, the thing with my thumb. So I had a pretty crazy [inaudible] uh, school injury with my thumb and cut it on a table saw and that was kind of shattering at the [inaudible] uh, but you know, I bounce back resilient nonetheless. But this thing with, um, the back and nerve pain and it, it didn't really affect my back so much.
Mike: It was my foot and my left leg and being able to move freely. Yeah. It just changed everything. It was, it was debilitating. It was frustrating and, um, I fell into a deep, deep depression.
Lauren: Well, it makes sense that it would have such an emotional impact on you because when I think anytime we have something that's a huge focal point of our lives and that we identify with feels like it's part of us. So to have it taken away or altered in a major way [inaudible] I feel like we're losing ourselves. It's very disorienting.
Mike: Yeah. I felt like, why me? What did I do? I became the person that people didn't want to be around. Ah, I also lost a lot of friends because I couldn't go do all the things that I was doing at the time. And that coupled up with another thing with a relationship that fell apart and it was just like this massive, everything just came it, everything was washed away in essence.
Mike: So I, I think that the, the, the back injury was like the beginning. It was the S the, the F, you know, the moment where new things started to happen. And it was frustrating in the beginning. Doctors just wanted to cut me open. So my natural response was to kind of go away from it and ignore it and think, well, maybe I'll get better because they couldn't tell me what it was. Okay. They didn't know. They were giving me kind of half baked, uh, explanations. And I started to lose what little faith I did have in, in health care because my, my mom was a, in healthcare, all her life, nursing and everything like that. So I had it exposure to that and I heard all kinds of stories and, and saw things through a different lens than my own. So going into it, I knew how to speak to doctors and, and deal with it, but, uh, this was just, it completely threw me for a loop and I didn't know what to do. Bottom line, it was confusing. I didn't know where to turn. I lost my job. I got laid off shortly after my injury and, uh, I didn't, eventually I didn't have insurance.
Lauren: Oh my God.
Mike: So here I am.
Lauren: Wow.
Mike: I couldn't walk more. Yeah. I couldn't walk more than 10, 20 feet without having to like stop and kind of hunch over to take the pressure off my nerves. And that was the beginning of it. That's when it just threw me further into depression. Um, it was, it was a dark time. It was really, really nice.
Lauren: And what's [inaudible] it really of course stands out to me, is in the midst of all this darkness, lost your job, lost your friends, lost a bunch of physical abilities. [inaudible] emotional distress in the midst of all that. As you look back and describe it, you say that's when a lot of new things started to happen for you with you. I don't know how you would describe it, but I'm really curious about that part.
Mike: Well, you know, as time went on, I started to, I turned within more so than I ever had in my life. No. I was always, uh, an emotional kid and sensitive I'd say. But this forced me to sit and be still, I had to, I hadn't, I had nothing I could do. Yeah. Uh, like I used to, I couldn't just go run or go, I play basketball and hang out with the group of people and do, it was different. I had to seek different means of, of, uh, entertainment, but also it tr it. The turn within was where things started to change. Yeah. I started learning more about a lot of metaphysical things, a lot of spiritual aspects of life, uh, that I may have been, I'm curious about before, but I started diving deep into it. I started learning more about creative aspects of things.
Mike: Like, I was already a very creative person. The musician, I got a recording arts and sciences degree. I started working in postproduction for film and TV. That was my life. And then I got laid off from that job and I'm hurt. So I mean bad thinking, Whoa, what's happening here. Yeah. And I started learning more about design and I started learning more about different ways of, of artistic, uh, application to what I do. My tools were my toolbox of audio and sound and communication and all these things. And I read more. I was reading. Yeah, it sounds funny thinking about it, but Tony Robbins, Seth Goden, Les Brown, Wayne Dyer, even, you know, I used to see Wayne Dyer on TV. Yeah. And years earlier when I go home, clean, Dyer, whatever. But then here I am, I'm reading and listening to Wayne Dyer on the internet.
Mike: I started to just, I enjoyed the dive I went deeper with, so I went, you know, they're saying these valleys that you go into those dark times, it's very poignant because you know, looking at it now, it was a very dark time. I became suicidal in a lot of ways. It was tough and it was disappointed. I felt like whatever life I was headed towards was gone.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: So I didn't know what to do. So there's this sense that, just the way that you describe it, is like the definition of bittersweet because you're saying I was suicidal at that time and you're saying that I, I enjoyed the dive. Right. So like there was something in you that was simultaneously, cause it really does sound simultaneous, like I was feeling really, really challenging emotions. And then at the same time I was feeling into another way, like another way of even being with that darkness and being like you said, in the Valley.
Lauren: So when you say “I enjoyed the dive,” can you tell me a little bit about what that it was like for you? What the enjoyment, how, where that came from and how it evolved.
Mike: Uh, you know, I don't know where the appreciation for it came in the timeline, but I look back at it now and I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Because it showed me more sides of myself then I was willing to look at before I was scared of, of who I am. It could be who I really am. I think looking at it that way, it was really difficult, but at the same time, something within me, just kind of ringing in the back of my ears. This is temporary. Ooh, temporary situation. You have to just keep going. I didn't know what that meant. I knew how I felt about it. That's all I could say.
Mike: I couldn't rationalize it in any way. And I'm, uh, I try to be very rational, but at that time it became all about just, it's temporary. Let's have fun in this moment because there's nothing else. So I had to create the elements that of wonder, embraced the darkness, look at it face to face and go, okay, what do you got? Yeah. You know, I didn't fall into addiction. I didn't fall into anything funny enough, like people I talked to about these things. Now they think, “Well, I'm surprised that you didn't get into drugs and alcohol and all these other distractions,” but I chose not to distract myself and I didn't know what I was doing in it. I wasn't thinking about it like I'm talking about it now. I just, I just knew that I wanted to be more creative. Something was calling me to do more things with my creativity.
Mike: Lo and behold, that was the spark that I started learning about entrepreneurs and I asked myself “What could I do on my own?”
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: Foreshadowing that I had to be still, you know, this was foreshadowing. Well, here comes the idea that's going to really, do you think your life's changed now? Wait.
Lauren: Mmm.
Mike: Because we got something for you. Yes. So I read, I learned, I kept learning and then I had an idea. Maybe I just start a thing, start a business, start freelancing. That's what it was in the beginning, freelancing. And I knew enough people who cared about me, uh, you know, from my work and other things that didn't dropped me, they didn't drop me. And, uh, I'm thankful for them because it opened, I chose to walk through that door. That's what it was.
Lauren: Part of your PR, the creativity that you described is very much about what you were doing externally in your career and starting a new business. And then there was also this internal creativity, which I thought of when you were saying that you had to create your own wonder. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's just really neat.
Mike: You know, at the time it just seemed normal than me. I guess that's how I always operated. Even before going, leading up into working in, um, film and television post, I had a big change in life. I decided I want some, it's something different. Yeah. At the time I was, I was at a dead-end job and, and just life was not exciting. It was very depressing, but it was okay, you know, it was just that life was good. And, um, I went back to school and I just got super hungry. I was hungry, I was just enthusiastic about everything I was doing. That's what it was. So I, I kind of tapped into that energy cause I knew it's there.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: But I had to reintroduce myself to it and that's why this whole thing, um, when I was reading and learning and sort of reading all this metaphysical stuff, um, one night I remember this moment real clearly. Um, my friend’s father who, um, has long since past, uh, he was, uh, at the time I was going to church and his father was our pastor, my pastor. It's a great man and you know, I wasn't that connected with that experience with the church so much. But I remember this one talk he gave one and it was about zeal for life. He just had this unbridled enthusiasm. So I remembered that and it just something that stuck with me and I remembered the words and I kind of went, yeah. And just dove in with that. I thought, okay well nobody's going to be more enthusiastic than me about what I'm doing because I've been on the other side of it.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: I've been lazy. I've been that, you know, not achieved. I've done very little. Uh, I've been that guy hard times. Okay. So I didn't want to, I didn't want to go backwards. I wanted to go forward. I wanted better for myself, my surroundings at the time or as you know, you know, it wasn't ideal. Um, my living situation wasn't ideal. So again, I, I doubled, tripled down on who I am. I went in and started thinking about what I could do. I started writing down what is it, what does it look like, what can I do, what can I do to make a living, what can I do to express myself? And then I got the idea of, well, okay, I'm going to start small because everything starts small. And I started freelancing and that started going pretty well.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: It just seemed like it picked up and it was, it was kind of cool and I enjoyed it and I was meeting a lot of interesting people, working a lot of interesting places around LA and I was still dealing with the physical stuff, but it didn't really have a hold on me so much when I was in these moments. Like I didn't think about it when I was a kid, you know, at work or working on something. I didn't think about it. I didn't have ideal tools at home, but I didn't let that bother me. You know, I didn't have the best computers and you know, all of the tools that I need. But I thought, okay, just like everything else that's temporary, I'm just gonna roll with this.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: And then I met a friend who ended up becoming a, a partner in my first business. We didn't know what it was really. Well we started doing it and started working, uh, with artists, bands, things of that nature in around LA and the music business. And ultimately that ended up being my first successful business. And during that time it was really, really interesting because I was still hungry. I was learning more, and I can't say more than the people I was around. It is just my experience, you know? I don't want to lessen the people that were around me by any means, but I was constantly growing and I think to a point where I was almost too excited too. I was just pushing it, all of that energy out of people. Okay. And they started letting me know like, “We don't want that. We're not excited by that.” I'm like, ah. And, and it was a hard thing because I felt like, um, that was being pushed back down. So I started building resentments with certain things. So then the challenges started evolving and changing a little bit. There were successes, there were some definite pitfalls. I'm not a, you know, a business graduate. I didn't go to school for business or anything of that nature, but I just was learning on the fly. Anything I could find online, in books. I was inexperienced, just doing it, taking some tips from something I didn't know how to negotiate it and really know how to do much, but I learned trial and error mostly and then got a big success. Funny enough, after I got laid off from a job as a music coordinator, I ended up getting another job and then you know, doing stuff on the side with the business and I got laid off, uh, during the holidays.
Lauren: Okay.
Mike: Then we got our first big contract. I felt so free and open and proud and it was such a different thing and I got to share it with people. You know how that is, I'm sure you want to do something, you go after your goal, whatever it is, and you get a little bit of achievement. Maybe it's not full, but the taste of it is enough to keep you going. But when you get that full, like this is what I set out to do, here's what I'm trying to accomplish and then I do it. It was like this, like I didn't even know that I was capable of that thing.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: We got that contract, and it wasn't really that big. Looking at it now I'm like, wow, it's not really that huge, but it was such an amazing thing. It was such an amazing time.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: It proved to me that I could do it.
Lauren: Yeah. Yes.
Mike: You know what I mean? Because there was so much ahead of that was like, “No, take this away.” And “No, you can't go for a run anymore.” You know, all the physical stuff. And it was, it was great. And I, I started traveling more because of our work. I started, um, going to different places. It was amazing. But in that, I started kind of losing track a bit with myself, so I stopped sort of connecting as much.
Lauren: Mmm.
Mike: And I started, you know, the depression was still there. It was something that I was just sort of mitigating with um, food and things of that nature. And distraction. Going to events, going to concerts all the time. That stuff kind of gets, you know, it sorts of satiates a different aspect of who you are. And I was having fun, which was cool because I hadn't been having fun for a while. You know, how it is.
Lauren: Well I mean, I think what the… it's so cool how you're describing this path because it isn't linear. It's so clear that it's a very complex path, that you could have these deep lows and then have these highs and then resentment and then a little taste and after the disappointment of losing your job and then have like the big, big success, which I know you're saying isn't it as big as it felt back then, but I still think it's pretty big. You got your first big contract and then you're still like, “Oh, but I'm still dealing with depression” and “I'm still going out and I'm having some fun. But that's not quite right.” All of it. And that just feels like such a realistic description of the peaks and valleys that can be happening and your growth journey.
Mike: Absolutely.
Lauren: It's all part of it really. You're never without that contrast. And uh, I think people who've really been through it talk about it a lot and I, I can't, I could never ignore that, you know, and say, “Oh, it was easy and it was so much fun.” It wasn't all glamorous.
Mike: Yeah. And people, you know, that I talked to at the time, they're like, wow, that's amazing. You're so lucky. And I'm like, it's not that glamorous.
Lauren: Right. Totally. Yeah. And I think glamorous is a great, but you have to kind of keep in mind that if it isn't feeling glamorous, you're probably doing something right. Some work somewhere and it's some of the least glamorous stuff that can lead to the bright shiny stuff and by bright and shiny, I don't necessarily mean material things or external circumstances, but just that bright shiny stuff that happens internally, like the ability to take in the fullness of life. That's huge.
Mike: Absolutely. Huh. That's well said. Uh, it was like, um, again that contrast was the thing that I was so well aware of and it was because, you know, I, I might not have been sharing it so much with the people I was around cause they, you know, some of them just wanted to hang out and party and drink. This is the thing with like the music business. A lot of people in there really caught up in some bad things, you know, with their addictions and their troubles. And I was exposed to that. I worked real closely with people who were having a hard time. So I took all the energy, kind of the focus away from myself and did what I could to help other people. Some of them were grateful and I started to realize that I was becoming, again, I didn't mention this prior, but I started becoming “that” person. There's a, there's an aspect of being selfless that's I think great, but there's also a part of people pleasing that comes with it. So much so that it’s unhealthy; I wanted people to be in a good place. I wanted them to be happy, but I was starting to forget about myself. And that's where things really started. Kind of getting turbulent with all of that.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: And you know, I'm part of that. I'm part of it. I wasn't doing great at the time. I started becoming, again, managing the pain that I was dealing with. Nerve pain will change you.
Lauren: Mmm.
Mike: Pain will change you. I don't care what kind of pain you're in. It was, it was physical pain. It was emotional pain too. And I became who I needed to be to survive. Looking back at it now, you know, I mean, I would love to tell a couple of people, you know, I'm sorry for not being more aware in the moment.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: But you know, I've made peace with it since, but that set me into another valley. Uh, another place. It was, uh, another change and the business broke up. I'm skipping a lot of, of hard things. Um, I started talking to people again. I started getting out there more because that's where the action, the magic happens when you start sharing. Talking to people, sharing your gifts. That's where the magic is. It's not being alone. Even though I will fully say, and again, back to embracing the darkness, being alone is what I needed. It's useful.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: Your pain is useful. Completely useful. Just don't live there forever.
Lauren: Wow.
Mike: It's temporary stay.
Lauren: That's such a powerful way of thinking about it. It's like we can well in, in psychotherapy we call it titration, emotional titration. There can be a way that we can titrate in a moment or throughout a lifetime that sort of shifting into different variances of intensity of emotion. So in order to regulate and not feel completely overwhelmed by one or the other and find balance, we can kind of step a little bit into grief and then step out and take a break or step into the pain or the anger or the fear and really learn the lessons of it. But also be able to shift out of it and laugh or enjoy some lightness. And over the course of a psychotherapy session, you know, you can go in and out right over like you know, an hour or whatever, but in a lifetime we can do that too. Like I definitely have seasons -- and not just like seasons of the year. It's like seasons in a day or a seasons in a week or a month where I'm like, Oh wow, this is a time where… well, I'm in the darkness right now. Didn't want to be, but here I am. Because I have the awareness that you're talking about, which is like everything's temporary. I really do believe that even if a physical condition remained somewhat constant, there's, there are different seasons. We can live through that emotionally and with our outlook and with our experience of it and with the tools that we gain, all of that, but we learned so much like you just said, from being in that darkness, the willingness to be there and to know. I think part of what helps us to be willing is this isn't forever.
Mike: Absolutely. It's being able to take it and transmute it into something useful and not just intellectually know it, like “Oh, I know that now.” But actually “I understand this at a level” or “I can practically apply it to my life and then live it consistently.” Because you have to develop that muscle, right? You know that you have to become a practitioner of these things, whatever it may be. So I have my meditation practices, I have my morning and night routines.
Lauren: I know you talk about that a lot. It's wonderful.
Mike: I'd say that it's transformed me more than the exercising and the food. All those things help. I think the meditation practice and the connection … um, I was talking to a good friend the other day about how people talk about, I'm just going to unwind and disconnect when I get home. Unplug — that's what they say. I used to say, “Oh, I get it.” And I get what people say when they're saying that, but I say, “Hey, you go home and plug back in.” I think it's the opposite. Connect to yourself. Plug back in, get reconnected to your center. Remember what matters. Feel grateful. Feel the excitement. Being able to do what you do if things aren't great, you know? Really grasping those energies of feeling the excitement of the moments that you want to experience.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: Those are the things that have helped me get through some, you know, little speed bumps here and there, but these days I don't react anymore. Very calm through the situations. And there's like the, the certain people that, you know, we all know them. They're like, “Why aren't you freaking out? I need you to freak out with me cause I'm freaking out. You should be freaking out too.” I'm like, I feel you. I understand you. Okay. I just don't overreact anymore like I used to. Yeah. And I think that's because of my meditation. Taking time, deep breaths. Also visualizations help me. So yeah, I love visuals. That wonderful too.
Lauren: So Mike, if you could go back in time to 2003 you that was just injured in that darkness, confusion, fear, avoidance, depression, all of it. If you could speak with him, the now you, what would the now you to the past you… or what would the past you need to hear?
Mike: Wow, you could see him I’m getting a little emotional about that one. Okay. You know what I would… sit me down and just say to myself, “Be strong. Be open to the changes in yourself. Don't worry so much about what other people have to say. Don't worry about what other people think. And those things that scare you? Go towards those things. Go towards those things, because those are the important things and the things that you think are scary and, and that you don't want them… you're going to laugh at yourself years later when you go, ‘Wow, hey I really want them now.’ So just stay strong and remember your thoughts about things being temporary… you’re 100% right.”
Lauren: Ooh, I love that. That's so cool. And I understand. I understand why you felt that wave of emotion.
Mike: Yeah.
Lauren: This is such an important moment and I just want to name this process of reflecting the way you just did as transformative in and of itself. Just sitting with that question as you did. I saw like this moment and I think it's kinda neat it's also a public moment where you get to kind of claim your wisdom and share it openly with the you from back then who so needed it, but also really needed to live through it. So this isn't one of those scifi questions where it's like “f you could go back in time and change something,” it's not really that. It's a question about now you getting to claim what the you from back then didn't have just yet.
Mike: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Instant connection to it. Yeah. Thank you for that.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: I didn't even realize that.
Lauren: Well, it's, it's one of those things where I'm, sometimes I feel like the questions we ask culturally just in conversation of people who have health challenges can be … we can have a hard time. Like, what should I ask? I honestly think that's one of my favorite questions that I would love somebody to ask me. Just, you know, like people, you know how sometimes people are like, “Oh, how are you doing? How's your pain?” Or for me it's like, “How's your MS doing?” I love that question of like, “What would you tell the you from back then?” And I'm not saying that it's the best casual conversation. Like definitely only ask it if you have time to listen to the answer. But it's one of those that's like, “Yeah, this is a way to highlight all that you've been through and how far you've come and what you've accomplished along the way.” And, as you've been describing your journey, I keep having this vision of like a scuba diver, diving to the bottom of the ocean to collect these gems and then coming back up and then going back… You and I both like visualization. So that's just what popped into my mind. But it's like, that's cool. You know, being on this podcast, you get to talk about the dive, but then you also get to talk about, “Ooh, check out my gems.” You know?
Mike: That's amazing. Yeah, I love it. That's so cool. That's a great analogy. I'm going to use that.
Lauren: Yeah, well it's definitely what came up and it's something that it takes effort. You have to be willing to be in the darkness. There's no light at the bottom of the ocean. I mean, you are truly just in the darkness. You have to be willing to be in the darkness. So, um, like what you just mentioned about meditation being, in fact, probably the biggest factor in your life of all the changes that you've made. That makes so much sense to me because, you know, there's this constant, there's this you that is always with you or the higher self or whatever you want to call it, that we get to access that part of ourselves when we're in meditation or when we're in prayer, um, connecting with the higher power or, you know, just connecting with our inspiration and our passion. And so I think that's one of those things that people can't really take away from us regardless of the circumstances or regardless of what happens with our bodies. So yes, I totally get that. What you're saying that is, that has been the number one factor for you that's shifted your life.
Mike: Yeah. That is it. The reconnection. That's what I was saying, plugged back in. That's where it's at.
Lauren: What does it mean to you to live a fulfilling life and how's that definition fulfillment been impacted by your health journey?
Mike: Wow, that is a really in-depth question. Um, I would say that I'm just now scratching the surface of that through my health, through my connection of mind and body. I think that it's been disrupted over the years, so I feel like I'm just now scratching the surface of it and, and I'm okay with that. I don't feel guilty by any means. Uh, but I'd say for fulfillment. Okay. What does it mean? I feel like, for so many years, I was not able to connect to whatever it was that needed to come out, whatever that, whatever my messages, whatever, my voice let it out. Part of fulfillment for me is to be able to express myself, but I also there's so much joy for me in helping other people realize their potential and seeing people succeed and feel good. I think we're all, we're all looking for the same thing. We're all meant for good things. You know, we get off track and some other people don't exercise that. But I think seeing people that I care about and people that I know are having a hard time… I just want to see them succeed. To have a meaningful life for themselves, whatever that looks like. I don't want to force my will on anybody, but to see someone or even get a ‘thank you’ sometimes just say, “Hey, you know, you didn't even think about this, but thank you for this because, because of this reason, I was able to go do something.” Ultimately fulfillment…. there's no one way for it. It's just that I want to be able to exercise my creativity. Live with my passions. More so lately is just life's changed for me. Well, it's like those connections that I've re-established with myself, the higher self, my perspective on my life has changed. I want things that I probably wouldn't have been talking about five years ago.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: So you know, I want, I want more love that, that really is it. That's fulfilling.
Lauren: And how's that? Has your fulfillment kind, your definition of fulfillment changed from pre- 2003
Mike: Oh, 100% 200 300% yeah, it has. It's definitely changed because it was all about achievement and we’re taught that. I definitely believe that I was taught. Uh, I would actually say not even so much about achievement, I was taught at a young age that we’re survivors and we just make it through life. Chew on that one for awhile. I had to really deal with that programming. So now coming out of that and then seeing how life has changed from that too. Goals and achievement were the main number one thing to now … Love is the main thing. And being able to foster it in the world through myself and others, completely changing, completely different. And I love it.
Lauren: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Do you have any funny moments from your health journey you can recall? It could be that, not that the duration was funny, but maybe something about how you approached it or how you responded to it or have somebody else in your life did?
Mike: Okay. Uh, you know, I could look back at a lot of things and find them humorous now. Yeah. To be honest, cause I just, who I am. I mean I can find that the humor in a lot of things. I would say just for pure comedy sake. Okay. Ah, this recently when I started going to the chiropractic office … at the time when I first went there, I hobbled in there and they're like, everyone's just kind of looking at me like, “Oh my God, are you okay?” I'm like, “You know, I'm all right.” Went through everything and then I went through the first treatment and then, they're like, “Okay, go over to, um, I forget her name now, but she's great and she'll, uh, give you a massage.” And I'm like, “Huh?” Not feeling really like I'm going to take my shirt off in front of all these people cause this is open office. And I'm like, “Ah, okay.” And I look at it now, it's funny, even in the moment I was like, “Oh God.” And I just like this dialogue started going on in my head and I'm like, “Well, what do you show? Maybe I'll just make an excuse and not go through with it. Oh my God, what do I do?” In the moment I was like, “I am going to be not embarrassed, and I just said, ‘screw it.’” I just kind of like, and I just made it funny. I don't know. It just turned it into this kind of enjoyable experience. I mean, it was a good massage. But I turned it into something else and I don't know if I would’ve ever done that before, but I was cracking up. We were all laughing and I had people talking that I didn't even know. It was fun. That was funny.
Lauren: I mean, I liked that you got to own the situation for yourself. Like “Nope, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do it big I think.”
Mike: Exactly. You know, and I'm not like this a little person, like I'm 6’5” I'm a big, big dude. It's kind of hard to like slip away through, you know, into the shadows most of the time when I go places. So you know, I've learned over and over and over. Learned and relearned that I have to own it. Own who you are. You've been given this presence, whoever we are. We've been given the presence that we have for reason. Use it, embrace it. So I'm like, you know what? Oh well screw it.
Lauren: Ooh, good for you. And then everybody else, the room probably felt okay because you were, you know, like I think that's part of it too. Being in a setting like that, probably other people I felt equally uncomfortable but seeing you kind of embody that confidence and yeah. It sounds like you're like kind of casual about it. Like yep, “Let's do this thing and that has an impact.”
Mike: Yeah.
Lauren: But I will say that does sound mortifying. And it reminds me of that dream that people have of like, “Oh no, I was in middle school and I showed up naked.” You know, “I showed up to class without my clothes.” Like that's the kind of that fear that it strikes inside. I bet.
Mike: Yeah. That, that sound that you hear, “You said what?” And then there's like the soundtrack, [[crashing noises]] you know, yeah. In the background. That's kind of what was going on in my head. I'm like, “Oh no. You didn't say I'd have to, you know, take off my clothes.”
Lauren: Its not the best idea for clinics and not have some privacy.
Mike: That's what I, you know, at this point I just, I'm, you know, zip my lip. But um, yeah. Yes.
Lauren: What do you have now that you might not have had without your injury and the experience that followed.
Mike: I have understanding of myself. I know who I am, I know what I'm capable of yet. I surprise myself all the time. Uh, I have patience. Yeah. But I'm also very unreasonable and I embraced that because it's not wrong.
Lauren: I like that. Yeah.
Mike: Uh, I, I'm patient, but I'm also, I don't… I believe it was like Casey Neistat that said, “You know, reasonable is like kind of saying, ‘Oh well they're nice.’” You know? Don't be reasonable. Unreasonable people make changes in the world.
Lauren: I liked that.
Mike: So yeah, I've embraced those things and uh, ultimately these things that are going on with me, they don't define who I am. I'm not the guy with the messed up back. Or the food allergy or whatever it may be. I'm not those things. I'm not my job either. I've realized that I'm none of those things. I'm much more than that.
Lauren: Yeah.
Mike: That's all I know.
Lauren: I love that. And it goes along with one of my favorites wondering questions is, “Are we our bodies?” You know, “Am I my body? Am I my multiple sclerosis? Am I the lesions?” You know?
Mike: Yeah. This is, this is interesting gift we've been given. Right. It's like, I feel like for me, I'm the captain of this ship and this ship is my body. For now. But yeah, that is a really deep, deep question or perspective to hold. Yeah. I love it.
Lauren: So finish the sentence. This is not what I ordered.
Mike: But I've received it. And I’ve accepted. I'm going to make the best of it for what it is.
Lauren: I love that.
Mike: And I'm going to build on it. I'm going to add some stuff, you know, like a little Robert Irvine in there, adding some extra stuff to it to make it taste and feel and look and just be a lot better.
Lauren: Yeah. You're making it yours.
Mike: Yeah.
Lauren: That's awesome. Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining me for this conversation.
Mike: Thank you, Lauren. I appreciate it. It's, it's been fun and, and thank you for going deep. Thanks for taking the dive, right?
Lauren: Yeah!
Mike: It’s been cool.
Lauren: It was pretty cool.